Upon reading the "Shame in the Sun" editorial my first reaction was "what a shame!" Then I read the mitigating circumstances for Armenians who vacation in Turkey rather than in Armenia or other countries. I admit that I would not have thought of these circumstances had it not been for the open forum in Keghart. However, I still believe that vacationing in Turkey is counter- productive to our cause. I do not think that as an adult I would have harbored the same intensity towards our cause if in my formative years my parents had vacationed in Turkey and taken me along with them. Actions, however subtle, speak much, and much louder than words, especially to the impressionable child. I do no think it is possible for an Armenian family to pass the determined legacy of our cause to its children while at the same time posting pictures of their good times in Turkey in their Facebook or in their family album.<!--StartFragment--> <!--EndFragment-->
Eric, read up on geopolitics before you talk about Russia's role in Armenia. If it were not for Russia, there would be no Armenia. How easy it is for people to forget that Turkish troops were positioned near the Armenian border in 1993 and had Russia not warned that WWIII would start should the Turks cross the border, the Armenian nation would be crying about much more than the loss of Western Armenia.
As for Armenians vacationing in Turkey, it sucks--there is no doubt about it. But the solution to the problem needs to come from entrepreneurs both in and out of Armenia, plus the Armenian government. Writing editorials or trying to shame people is not the best solution.
I am in agreement with practically everything you wrote in "Shame in the Sun." However, I would have preferred another headline... "Shameless in the Sun."
The comments made are perfectly undertstandable, but we are looking at only a small picture of the whole story. Armenians from lebanon and syria also go to turkey and spend even more.
My dear compatriots, we are not going to drive them to bankruptcy nor are we going to get touched by their hospitality, it is matter of CONCEPT! We all understand that the holidays are cheap but as mentoined in the article, there have been cases of assaults and one day there will be a major assault.
Here again lies the failed diplomacy of our politicians, and the issue was raised when one of the commentators could not get a visa. People will be able to travel when diplomatic ties are organised and agreed upon. For example, what is wrong with Montenegro and Croatia, or Lebanon, or southern Cyprus, but these have to be dealt with diplomatically to allow the ease of travel and allow holiday makers to relax in the sun.
I cannot imagine myself putting a penny in any Turkish man's pocket; after all the land that we are vacationing on is our Cilicia or has been confiscated from someone whom we loved or was close to us. Yet again we have not developed our internal tourism and we could benefit from that, but the Armenian oligarchs are busy of course!!!
I sympathize with you, and I'm very surprised that you have been refused tourist visas by so many countries. Perhaps you know people in these countries who could vouch for you?
In any case, Turkey is a dangerous place for Armenians, and the fact that they allow tourists in with ease is typical of their contradictory nature. I am half-Armenian, and nothing about my information betrays my Armenian roots, but I would still not go to Turkey; I never have and I never will go to a country that is basically telling me my ancestors did not exist by denying the Genocide that took their lives.
And I have gone without, rather than buy Made in Turkey.
I wish you well and hope you manage a visit to Europe sometime.
It should be fairly easy for someone in Armenia to get the names of those who take flights to Antalya. Get the names and make them public and disgrace them. Take their photos at the gates and put them on a website.
That is not an overall solution, I know, but it is something that can be done easily.
But please realize that there will always be turncoats and traitors among us. This is true in every country.
During the Genocide, there were some Armenians who revealed information that led to many Armenians being murdered.
Thank you Hagop for sharing with us and on behalf of your sister, brother and cousin as well, your memorable experience with the late Vehapar on the account of your famous grandfather Daye.
I will admit that I have not visited Daye’s grave in Kessab and did not know of that fitting quote engraved on his tombstone from our famous tenderhearted poet, Taniel Varoujan, who was also one of the many who were apprehended on the night of April 24, 1915 and was tortured to death. Whenever I visit Kessab, I will most definitely pay homage to Daye at his gravesite.
I will attempt to “translate” the one line quote for the benefit of the English speaking readers. I also admit before hand that I will most definitely not be able to render justice in conveying the linguistic eloquence of the quote.
“The Armenian hut bore you; the Armenian sorrow rocked you; and you became big as the sorrow” - Taniel Varoujan
My name is Lusie. I live in Armenia. I have never been to Turkey and do not not intend to spend any vacation there. But first you have to ask the embassies in Armenia, "Why do you refuse visas to Armenians to spend their holidays in your country?" I am 30-years-old and earn a substantial amount of money, which would allow me to travel around the world. I applied for tourist visas at several embassies but was refused--even for a work visa from the Bulgarian Embassy.
I can sponsour myself to travel to Paris, Vienna or any European country, but have been refused from all the embassies in Armenia because I am not married and don't have concrete links (family, etc.) in Armenia to return to. After being refused visas from various embassies, I totally feel as a prisoner in Armenia.
I am not homeless, I have no criminal record but because of the attitude of foreign embassies here, I have sadly realized that Turkey is only country that allows easy entry of Armenians, without discrimination.
If I will apply for visa for a UAE holiday, I am sure I will be refused. Meanwhile, citizens of the old CIS countries (Russia, Ukraine, etc.) do not have problem to be granted visas to anywhere in the world. So think about that and then blame the right persons and govermental organizations. And please answer my question, "Why are we prisoners in our country? Why does only Turkey let us travel without any limitations? Whose fault is that Armenians go to Turkey to spend holidays?"
Zohrab, I shouldn’t have used those insulting words. I am sorry; I overreacted.
Yes, you're right: 100 million dollars is big money for Armenia (though I exaggerated that number, maybe by two). But vacationing is important. A good vacation and rest boost human productivity. In that sense, Armenians benefit no less by going to Turkey. Vacationing is not a luxury but a necessity.
In Armenia they say, "Poor Armenians spend their vacation in Kobuleti (Black Sea resort in Georgia), the middle-class goes to Antalya, and the rich vacation in Armenia."
Do you think if those vacation monies were spent in Armenia our "patriotic government" would have already built an airport in Artsakh? I believe that the money would have gone into the pockets of Armenian "businessman." I am not sure that making Dody Gago, Nemets Rubo (I guess you know who these people are) and other "pillars" of Armenian economy and statehood even richer would make Armenia a better place. If you think so, you are an optimist and I envy you.
I overreacted because Armenia wastes many millions in needless things that could have been used more effectively. To solve our national issues we should focus on more important things rather than make scapegoats of the middle class.
It was Muron-orhnek in Echmiadzin, back in 1996. It was our first time in Echmiadzin, our first time in Armenia. We were four--my brother Sevag, sister Shaghig, cousin Razmik, and I.
The ceremony was over, and the desire to meet the Amenayn Hayotz Vehapar, Karekin the First was high but seemed impossible to achieve. His assistants informed us that Vehapar was too tired to receive visitors that day.
I wrote on a small piece of paper that the grandchildren of Kessabi Dayi would like to meet the Amenayn Hayotz Vehapar (the Kessabtsi Vehapar) and handed it to a bishop at the Veharan reception.
The bishop came back with a smile."Vehapar will receive you now in his personal appartment," he said.
Karekin I received us for more than one hour. It was a very informal, warm meeting at the balcony of his apartment in Veharan.
We were simply overwhelmed by the modesty, humility and sincerity of the highest-ranking Armenian religious personality.
My grandfather, Kessabi Daye, died in 1953. In 1996, 43 years after his death, his name on a small piece of paper, was enough to make the gates of Veharan in Echmiadzin open to receive four young Armenians by Amenayn Hayotz Vehapar.
There is a quote on the tombstone of my grandather. A quote written by Taniel Varoujan:
"Hay Khrjite (hut) kez dznav, Hay vishde kez ororetz, yev ayt vshdi chap yeghar medz."
Eric, take it easy. His car--that of the deputy-foreign minister´s son--was a jalopy. He had done his military service. His father, contrary to your description, was not one of "those". I visited them. The uncle´s farm was a poor piece of dry land, atop the hills, where they grew wheat. I wrote in my book (give me your address and I shall send you a copy) "how an Armenian can squeeze wheat out of stone"-- "Te inchbes Haye karic hats e hanel."
I was really impressed. His father, Jivan M.--not to be confused with his superior--whose son had crashed his car. I agree that he has not served in the army but he was elected to the post by our Ramgavars (the party with wealthy members) from the U.S. mainly, but at the time the winds were blowing quite fast from that "side."
It's a pity that overnight Armenia and the rest of the other 14 republics turned from a dictatorial regime to the present "wild and free-market economy," thanks to aforementioned. Had Armenia and the 14 republics gone through a "transitional period" like Spain, Portugal and Greece--all dictatorial regimes or going through Nordic (Sweden, Finland, etc.) European socialism, Armenia would not be in the current situation.
Alas, it was not to be. We are in the same current now with the other 14 are. But are you the one who will steer Armenia towards the preferred route--the Nordic Euro-socialism? I don´t think so.
My suggestion is first try to put our own house in Diaspora in order rather than badmouth Armenia and the regime there. Think, where did it emanate from and by whom?
Bygones are bygones. If the Diaspora remains in this "Arshagavan" mode, not much can be expected. If it drastically makes changes within its "kharkhul" shaky structures and adopts a mode that suits it best, re-organizing itself through "professional association of colleagues" that I advocate then perhaps we can have the hope that it will become a real ("Li-Irav") fullly-fledged partner with Hairenik. Meanwhile, stay calm and instead of criticizing, meditate: "What can be done?"
Unfortunately, the situation is the same with a lot of Armenians in Lebanon.
By the way, Egyptian resorts are cheaper and much better equipped than those in Turkey. Armenia tour operators need to be convinced to change the destinations they are promoting. The distance from Armenia to Egypt is about the same as to Turkish resorts.
We have serious issues with Turkey. Aside from economics, I consider vacationing in Turkey a moral crime. To this day, Orthodox Jews do not buy German- made cars.
Most of you who replied to the article "Shame in the Sun" are missing the point. Armenians all over the world scream every day and demand recognition of the Armenian Genocide by the Turkish government. However, when it comes to their pleasure most don't care who they support. Wealthy Armenians from Armenia vacation in Turkey, Armenians from Diaspora vacation in Turkey, Armenian grocers in Diaspora carry Turkish products and Armenian customers buy them. Most Armenians favor Turkish products in department stores. I don't understand what happened to their principals, what happened to their demands from Turkey, what happened to their self- respect, what happened to their honor (I realize these are foreign words to some Armenians).
Why would Turks think we mean business when we demand recognition? Why do so many Armenians reside and work in Turkey? Why do desperation and economic despair in Armenia drive citizens of Armenia to Turkey for work? There are so many other countries to go for employment. If these people don't respect themselves, how about respecting our ancestors--our grandmothers and aunts were raped and slain; they committed suicide so they would not give themselves to Turks, be dishonored. Most people in Armenia are after money, pleasure, greed and selfishness. It should not take a government to tell us what to do; we have to know it. We had almost 100 years to learn what to do, where to go, what to buy, whose economy to support. It is not important how small our contribution is to the Turkish economy. If we all boycott their products, their tourism, and be vocal about it, teach "odars," promote our Cause in the media, then we will make a difference. The editorial is to the point.
Eric, you are a short-sighted person who has no concept of diplomacy, politics and patriotism.
The $100 million might not mean much to Turkey, but surely it means a lot for Armenia. If we don't put a stop to it now, in the coming years the $100 million can become $200 million, $300 milliion...
You think that Turkey is more advanced, yet in reality that country is still guided by 18th-century Ottoman laws, and a perfect example of that is Article 301.
I don't like the Armenian government, but it surely is much better than its Turkish counterpart, where they sign international agreements just to tear them apart the next day. They talk of genocide in Palestine when the 1915 blood of Armenians is still wet on their hands. They talk about Israeli attack on a ship which they systematically organized and sent its passengers to be slaughtered...etc. etc. etc.
I don't think there is any stupidity or groundless subject in the article. The editor has not tried to harm any Armenian interest. $100 Million can build an irport in Artsakh.
Do you think by travelling to so called Turkey Armenians will be educated? If you know better why don't you run for a political position in Armenia?
Why do we have to be negative? Why don't we make suggestions instead of calling each other inproper names?
You should have asked some further questions to that son of a deputy minister before getting impressed by his highly "intellectual" and "groundbreaking" explanation.
For example:
How much is his dad making that he was able to buy a car for a wonder-kid like him?
How does that happen that the son of the foreign minister runs over an ordinary citizen in the center of the capital city on a car bought by taxpayers money and does not spend even an hour in a police station?
How many months that patriot has spent in the army and, if he has (to which I strongly doubt), in what capacity, before labelling his countrymen "esher"?
Would he dare to call an "esh" to his president who spends taxpayers money in casinos of Europe?
Although in a sense I agree with him. Yes they are "esher", because they tolerate the existence of such non-human like beings like himself.
Antranig's comment reminds me the "ekskursia"s (excursions) in the Soviet period. State sponsored vacation trips were offerred to intellectuals, executives, students, workers, etc to various destinations within Armenia and in the Union. Many a citizen took advantage of those trips both for pleasure and some petty business on the side. I recall a classmate from Akhalkalak who left for Leningrad (I think) taking two baskeful of tomatoes with him to sell on the "open" market. He had good time and returned with a few extra rubles in his pocket.
Of course, mostly the party elite, the "cream" of society took advantage of the system, yet "common" people were not ignored either. Many visited the vacation spots mentioned in the article for "pennies".
I wonder how people today tolerate the extremely suffocating heat in Yerevan. Do the students, intellectuals, workers get a break? I don't think so. Can the situation be reversed or at least ameliorated? I am not sure, and I am hesitant to make any proposals because nobody at the official level in Armenia is listening.
I am not a Bible (Asdvadzashountch) expert but I know that Armenia is mentioned a few times in the Old Testament. Why the Muslim Turks who believe in the Old Testament deny the existence of Ararat and Armenia?
They, the Turks that deny are the real infidels. Why we, Armenians do not take advantage of what is mentioned in both the Bible and Quran about our lands and people.
Some of the new versions of the Old Testament have eliminated the word Armenia altogether. Turkish propaganda?
The language of this editorial is understandable. However, there is another side to the coin. Lake Sevan can be a good vacation resort, but Armenia`s newly-rich robber barons, the oligarchs, have built vacation resorts there for rich people, not for the ordinary Armenian citizen. Armenia is not being built for its people, but for the few ``rich`` who will also receive `rich`` visitors from other countries. Unless this tide is reversed by a popular movement, we should not expect any change in the foreseeable future. As for the political parties, they are also part of the rich oligarchs; they don't promote anything without party or pecuniary interests.
The counter-revolution in Armenia by the new elites, in association with propaganda coming from American and other western embassies, coupled by efforts by some Diasporan Armenians put this country on the wrong path.
Who will correct it? How? when? Why correct the situation, since it suits the new capitalist-oligarchic-robber class in Armenia?
A stupid and groundless article, cheap and populist. What do 50,000 tourists mean for Turkey? Even if they spend US $2,000 each, it's $100 million for Turkey's US $880 billion GDP. You think we can drive them into bankruptcy by not going to Turkey? Armenian oligarchs probably spend that much in European casinos and on sex trade.
The author has extremely wrong understanding of patriotism. You cannot compare vacations in Sevan, Black Sea, Shushy with the ones in Antalya. I am very happy that people can afford to spend their vacation in places like that. We have to admit that Turkey, in many respects, is more advanced than Armenia. And Armenia can benefit from vacationing in Turkey as Armenians then could have a better understanding of what is good and bad.
You think Armenians are not being killed in Armenia? They are being killed in police stations, in the army, in hospitals, in the center of Yerevan by the so-called oligarchs. It is a country where human life doesn't mean anything.
Armenia's number-one enemy is not Turkey; it is its current government, headed by a president any country would be ashamed to have. A man who has no vision, no moral values, no intellect, is corrupt and who forces its citizens to slavery in Russia. He is selling the country to Russia and keeps demoralizing an entire nation.
Getse Mesrob. You put this guy where he belongs. If you had not responded, I was going to. We should not let the Turks win the propaganda war. We should never let them deceive the world with their fabricated lies. Well done my friend.
When on a mission in Armenia in 2006 to videotape five schools being repaired or built, I headed to Jambarak where some of the work was being done. I was provided with a chauffeur-driven car and an architect. On the way to Jambarak, the architect, the driver and I began to chat. The architect was merrily telling us how he had spent his summer holiday in Antalya. I asked him why did he not go to local resorts or to the ones your [Keghart]editorial mentioned. He defended himself by saying that Antalya was cheaper.
Later, when the 20-year-old son of Armenia's deputy foreign minster took me, in his small car, to his uncle´s farm, we somehow got to talking about vacations. I told him that only a week earlier the "architect" had boasted about his vacation in Antalya. This is what he said: "ESH en, nrank wor gnoum en."
Now back to your point of what is happening and the remedies that are required. The Yerevanite is mostly unaware of what he/she is doing by going to Antalya. Two months ago my dentist in Yerevan disclosed to me that their vacation--with her husband and kids--was getting close. To where? I asked. "To Antalya," she said. Her father is an ex "palkovnic" colonel of the Soviet Army. I then asked why not choose those areas/resorts you mentioned. Her answer was, "Well, it is more expensive there..." I could not restrain my anger and told her the above story about the young man who called those who vacation in Turkey as "ESH-er." She could not say anything since I had quoted a third party. I wonder if she took my advice and cancelled the Turkish vacation for another.
It is not easy to change peoples' thinking and habits, especially after the Protocol signing and the talks about rappraochement. Turks are fast at work; their propaganda machine, their tourist agencies are effective.
A church-going lady and I will soon cooperate to attract spiritual tourism to Armenia, alongside with the usual tours.
Kudos to the ambasador for his efforts in pursuing productive Mexican-American relations and also for acknowledging the painful truths of both Mexican and Armenian history and the liberating value of truth.
But what about his suggestion to "bring down the bombastic nature of the debate, to look at the opportunities and the challenges in an objective and forward-looking way." The comments posted about this article seem to revel in the same old, self-serving, fear and anger laden bombast, which is really a shame. I dodged the anonymous mud slinging and almost missed the point about the similarity between the treatment of Armenians and Native Americans. I believe that there is some truth in this. But, don't we have laws in the US today that at least try to repatriate Native American cultural artifacts and respect ancient Native American burial grounds?
The butcher Talaat Pasha promised to allow a single Armenian to survive the Genocide - as a museum exhibit. Genocidal Turkey is allowing one Armenian church to function - as a museum exhibit. We will reclaim our lands no matter how many diplomatic and intellectual gymnastics you indulge in to deny the undeniable. We will reclaim our lands, reparations and restitution.
Mr. American... or should I call you Indolent Turk? After all, I wrote the email you responded to today on ... March 24 for God's sake! You must be one busy guy/gal. Indeed, you are not entitled to an answer: I am merely writing for the benefit of Keghart readers who had to suffer through your absurd letter.
To paraphrase poet Elizabeth Browning, let me count the ways that you are wrong at best and take reckless liberties with the truth at worst.
To prove that there is hostility between Mexican-Americans and Armenian-Americans you cite that Gov. Deukmejian did not approve Justice Cruz Reynaso as candidate to the California Supreme Court. Some proof, some single example "emperical evidence" of your nonsensical allegation.
You say that Mexican-Americans have forgiven-forgotten 500 years of imperialism by Spain and America, presumably. I guess you have not heard that many Mexican-Americans consider their emigration to California, Nevada, Arizona, Texas as slomo "reconquista" of these states by Mexicans.
As Col. Keusseyan wrote, you are not Mexican or Mexican-American. You are a Turk who is not very good at this put-up job. If you were Mexican-American, you wouldn't have denigrated your fellow Mexicans by writing, "Please do not confuse us [Mexican-Americans] with the recent waves of illegal immigrants."
You say that to die for the true faith is a courageous act, but "that does not mean I have to support your community's claims of genocide." I can't follow your reasoning here--if there is such a kernel of logic in it.
"Turkey is not a criminal state," you say.Tell that to Greeks, Armenians, Assyrians, Kurds, and, yes, to Turkish intellectuals.
You say since Turkey is an ally and friend of the US, you wouldn't recognize the Genocide of Armenians. If you were truly Mexican, you would be ashamed to say that. We all realize that states and human beings have many differences. One of those is that human beings have conscience--unlike states which are motivated by self interest, pure and simple.
Yet another proof you are a Turk: You say many of the books of the Gospels were written in Turkey. My friend, there was no Turkey in the first century. Turks, if they existed then, were still marauding in the deserts of Central Asia. They made their first bloody appearance in the Middle East in the 10th century--a full millennium after the Gospels were written. Besides, what does the writing of the Gospels have to do with Armenians? with the Genocide of Armenians?
I got news for you: Homer's Troy is in Turkey. I bet you would call Hector, Paris, Aeneas Turks, too. Maybe Homer was a Turk too, not to mention the famous king of Midas. Maybe Constantine the Great was a Turk, too, since he founded Constantinople, which you call Istanbul.
But the best proof that you are a Turk is the Turkish boilerplate propaganda line which spouts that many people were killed during Turkey's war of independence. So what? It wasn't Armenians who killed them. Turks died because they declared war against the Allies, hoping that Germany would help Turkey further expand it borders. Instead, the crumbline empire lost everything except Asia Minor--the homeland of Greeks and Armenians.
Re the murder of Turkish diplomats by Armenian terrorists. Where do you get the nerve to criticize Armenian terrorists when your country brought the rotten corpse of mass murderer Tala'at--20 years after his assassination in Berlin--to Turkey for a state funeral, with all the trimmings and 21-gun salute. A mass murderer and a true hero of Turkey, a true son of Atilla the Hun, Cengiz Khan, et al. Besides, there are 8 million Armenians. If a hundred or even a thousand Armenians turned to terrorism in desperation, it doesn't mean this insignificant minority is representative of Armenians. Meanwhile official Turkey kills, and harasses millions of Kurds--sorry, Mountian Turks. If only they would come down from those mountians and became Field Turks.
About your advice that Armenians should not bear a grudge... If you were Mexican you would have known that Mexico still hasn't forgiven France for installing Maximilian I as emperor of Mexico. But since you are a Turk, Maximilian and Juarez are strangers to you.
Yes, Armenians are Aryans, like Iranians and most Europeans, including Spaniards. In your dim mind you must think Aryan means Nazis, although Turkey is one of the most racist countries on the globe. The world hasn't forgotten that "neutral" Turkey played footsie with the Nazis... but again, you wouldn't know that.
Re your comment about Armenians living in Arab countries. Armenians are forever grateful to Arabs for the hospitality, the kindness Arabs extended to the survivors of the Genocide of Armenians. Armenian communities in Arab countries have been loyal to Arab countries and have contributed significantly to their new home countries.
You suggest that there was no genocide because Turks being Moslem like Arabs, couldn't have killed Armenians for their religious beliefs. I will try to explain this in as simple words as possible: Turks killed Armenians, Greeks, Assyrians because these nations--by definition--were not Turks. Turks wanted to create a homogeneous country. Kurds being "Mountain Turks" were not touched. The Christianity of Armenians was an additional reason to exterminate them.
Your Fifth reason is a non sequitur. Look up the word in the dictionary.
Your final paragraph is unintentionally hilarious, revealing your Turkish identity yet again. I hope your bosses don't read this letter... they might fire you for incompetence. I like to see you hold on to your "job"
I said it before and I say it again. This guy is not Mexican nor he is an American. Just because he says so, it does not make him Mexican- American. A true Mexican-American does not hide behind an assumed name. As long as he/she hides behind an assumed name, none of his comments should be taken seriously. I lived in this country for over forty years and never had problem with Mexicans nor American-Mexicans. Like I said before, this guy works for the Turkish Republic and he/she is a cheap propagandist and he/she is trying to drive a wedge between the two communities. Umurham, Umr, Han or whatever you name is...You can run but you can not hide. But I give you credit for being persistent.
I know a few Turkish words, but here goes for your enjoyment.
"Garapagh aliminizenden gette!!!" can be translated as "Karabagh went through our hands." Many knowledgeable Azeris realize this and repeat it.
Next time be prepared not to lose Shahumian back to us...Nakhichevan and then perhaps come close to Kantsag--Genjah as you have transformed the name...and a few other such venues. Lenkoran will be taken by Persian Lenkoranis in addition to other small areas up north, such as Dagestan.
I am Mexican-American, not Turkish. I'm sorry if that surprises you, but I am what I stated I am. In recent California politics whenever there was an Armenian-American elected to office (or example, George Deukmejian, Republican governor who opposed Justice Cruz Reynoso as a candidate to the CA Supreme Court, among other incidents) and among others of the local state legislature, their interests have been in opposition to the social and economic interests of Mexican-Americans. This is empirical evidence that the political interests of our communities are very different.
Secondly, Mexican-Americans do not play the victim card. Yes, thank you, we are religiously devout. We fight injustice, but we do not dwell on the last 500 years of subjugation and imperialism. We do not ask for reparations, land or money.
Many Mexican-Americans hold prominent positions in the US, and Mexicans in Mexico, who are wealthy and educated, have no need to migrate to the US. Please do not confuse us with the recent waves of illegal immigration.
Third, your statement "Christian Armenian martyrs of 1915 and support a fellow-suffering race rather than become allies of the criminal state which continues to deny its murder of a nation." Well, Mesrob, I do respect and honor the Christian marytrs who have died throughout the centuries. To die for the true faith is a courageous act, but that does not mean I have to support your community's claims of genocide.
Turkey is not a criminal state. Turkey is an ally and friend of the United States. And if you understand the history of Christianity, you would know that many books of the Gospel were written in Turkey. You should also bear in mind that many people were killed during Turkey's war of independence. What I find appalling is that on my own American soil, Armenian "Christians" commited terrorism by murdering Turkish diplomats at the Turkish embassy in Los Angeles. That is scary. That kind of hatred toward others for past wrongs is diabolical and inexecusable. It is purely un-American. And I am American first and foremost, Mesrob.
Fourth, from observation, it appears that Armenians have a natural ally and long-term historical friendship with Iranians. Both of you consider yourselves "Aryan." Armenians have a significant minority population in Iran. Iranians are predominately Shia Muslims. In Lebanon, a majority Muslim country, there is a large Armenian community. In Istanbul and in southeastern parts of Turkey you can find Armenian-Turkish citizens. Armenians live in Islamic countries. If this was about Christianity vs. Islam, how come Armenians are so close to Muslim Iranians? Your dislike of Turks appears to be based on ethnic hatred more so than on religion.
Fifth, there is an eerie parallel between white folks (supremacists) who never relent on their hatred for Mexican-Americans and Mexicans in general and Armenians who never relent in their digust toward Turkish-Americans and Turkish people.
On a personal note, Mesrob, there is good and bad in every culture. But I happen to have a deep respect for Turkish people. Does it bother you that there are many Mexicans in California who like Turks? Can a Mexican- American only be a friend of an Armenian if he/she supports the Armenian Genocide claims? Will you be friends with a Mexican- American like me who doesn't? Let's find out, shall we?
Je leur donne mon appui le plus sincère à tous les intellectuels turcs qui ont valeureusement décidé de faire face au passé dur de ses ancêtres, en reconnaissant publiquement le génocide arménien et en abordant pour une réconciliation définitive entre turcs et arméniens.
Azerbaijan is a Turkic fabrication, just as Israel is a Zionist fabrication. Azerbaijan was patched together by Russia, slicing parts of northern Iran, while Israel was pieced together from Arab Palestine by the wealthy Zionist lobby and the colonialist British. No wonder the two undersized Frankensteins get along so nicely: after all, they speak the same language... the language of illigitimacy and phoney history.
From: ACMAO Executive
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:27 PM
Subject: ACMAO Executive members to appear on Hai Horizon and TorontoHye Newspaper
Dear colleagues and friends,
We would like to remind you that next Saturday morning (August 28) at 9:00 am on Hai Horizon television, they will be broadcasting the interview held with Dr. Berge Minassian and Dr. Gevork Mnatzakanian regarding ACMAO and the upcoming gala. Please inform all individuals on your mailing list, friends, and colleagues. Hai Horizon is on channel OMNI 1 from 9 to 10am. The same program will repeat itself on Friday September 3rd, 2010 at 7:30 am on the same channel.
The September issue of TorontoHye Newspaper will also publish the interview with both Doctors.
A quick reminder to purchase your Gala tickets or fill out your sponsorship forms as both TICKETS and TIME are running out! The Gala will take place on Saturday September 11, 2010 at the Liberty Grand. Please see attached poster for more information.
Our health professionals (doctors, nurses, etc) should be commended for their patriotic work. I have followed ACMAO's activities for a number of years now. Unlike other organizations it has a clear vision and tries to implement it in practice without pomposity.
I would invite readers to visit ACMAO's website to have an idea of their many projects that they have carried so far in Artsakh and Armenia.
This last plan of getting an MRI for Armenia is worthy of support and your donation - even without attending the Gala - I am sure will be appreciated by the organizers.
The article is an excellent wake-up call, but I would suggest that Mr. Bouldoukian's comment is even more profound.
There is no need to cite his credentials and accolades in the field. He is well known to those who have been attentive. His short paragraphs pack so much wisdom they need to be expanded on in separate essays.
He is right on that the expansion to empire status by the US post-WWII foreign policy establishment has created, at best, a financially unsustainable situation. Over 200 military bases around the globe (there are not even as many nations in the UN) has been unviable for a while. It could only be kept up by an equally unsustainable demand for the US dollar as an international hard currency which is tightly coupled with the international petroleum and arms trade. Shocks to the system, through global politico-economic meltdown did and will have long term repercussions. In the end, it is perhaps arguable that given a sufficient level of aggregation, everything is a zero-sum game. Gains in one field are couterbalanced by losses in another. No one can win all the time, or as it is better said, you cannot fool all the people all the time, no matter how hard you try.
At worst, this policy has created an unmatched level of animosity towards the US in world. This certainly does not bode well for the future of our planet.
The real tragedy for American citizens is that they are mostly unaware that their country is, for all intents and purposes, a military state. For the simple reason that the largest piece of the pie of the revenues and expenditures of their public funds are allocated to the military, most of the manufacturing capacity is dedicated to military or military-related output, most of the research in any field has some kind of defense connection, and any commercial applications, are fundamentally offshoots of initially defense-backed expenditures, particularly in the aerospace and hi-tech fields, and most people who are still employed in the private sector are likely employed by defense or related industries. This was what Eisenhower was warning against over 60 years ago. In a sense, it is yet another example of lack of economic diversification and increasing risk at a very macro level.
The real challenge for America and the world is to decouple itself (and very quickly) from such reckless reliance on war-mongering as a source of "wealth". That is why Mr. Bouldoukian is right again in his compact second paragraph. After all, if with our cumulative weaponry we can destroy the planet completely and utterly 20 times over, since only once would be more than enough, by any measure and point of view, even for the most aggresive capitalist, that is 19 times too many and a collosal waste of resources.
Evans-Prichard's analysis of the international crisis that struck the Western economies is worth reviewing and dissecting to find a healthy therapy solution(s) to the world economies. Piling up forces in several countries by states far from their neighbourhood is a kind of neo colonialism; the daily non productive spending on these forces (and the ensuing deaths of humans) looks no more a Keynesian deficiteering concept.
The world today looks like the 30s to 40s of the 20th century which produced the 2nd WW. Unless all parties concerned reconcile their appetites to the size of their stomach, and an equitable justice is introduced, the world is at the door of an intellectual and moral abyss.
Let the Turks establish a museum and host a Christian religious observance in the 1,100-year-old Armenian Cathedral of the Holy Cross at Aghtamar. And let the Armenians call it hypocrisy and stay at home in anger and argue amongst themselves about the situation. The winner in this event would not be the Turks. It would be "the green-eyed monster of anger and jealousy." The losers would be the Armenians.
I'm sorry if that sounds cynical, but in my opinion, the Armenians should not miss an opportunity to pay respects and stake a claim at their ancient sacred site. The Hay Aspeth youth group has made a courageous attempt. But now, wouldn't it be useful for these kids if the Armenian Church could turn this into an ecumenical or interfaith event and a history lesson, rather than lose the opportunity to another angry protest or a quibble over lighting candles in historic structures? It's all about setting the tone and establishing the voice of history at Aghtamar - for the kids and for the world. Who better to do that than the Armenians?
Panarmenian News has it that local authorities in EasternTurkey (Western Armenia) have been instructed to make preparations for opening the Armenia-Turkey border barriers for planned Armenian Pilgrimage on Sept.19, which was originally slated for the 12th, the Latter being their Independence Day, thus avoiding to cross with it.
One wonders if this is going to be just a Show -as many of us thought-or a prelude to then soften up and NOT CLOSE it after the pilgrimage. For this has always been their "Voj" style, as I wrote before, acting very cautiously, step by step, like a cat does when planning to thrust forward...
Unfortunately we did the worst thing ever when we declared to them to establish relations "without any preconditions". Whereas we should have set forth "The preconditions" that of their recognition of the Genocide perpetrated on us..
Bygones are bygones, our RA Government must now think of another strategy, since once borders are opened and that "without any preconditions" they will gear up for "amicable" relations, establish NGOs, Business establishments in RA.
What a shame that RA government did not consult with the Diaspora Armenians and did not act in cohesion with it. But then, what abput Diaspora that so far has not put its own house in order, each political party and/or other unions, etc. all acting seperately. I sent in to the editor-owner of this forum a lengthy article, that describes the ways and means of getting the Diaspora(s) re-organized to come up to a Super structure with Supreme Council.
I Wonder whether the editorial staff would consider to post it here in a precise (brief) manner.
We often tried not to offend Turks and this is where we are now – our children are not allowed to worship in our churches. Boycott is the only answer to the show the Turkish Government is putting on. That is, of course, if we have any shred of respect for what and who we are left. I applaud these kids and bow my head n front of them. They are brave and they are brave. I also applaud the Turkish policeman, based on what I see in this video. He does his despicable job but showing more restrained than any policeman in Armenia would show to his own people. In short, way to go Hay Aspet. More Armenians should do what they did. Let the Turkish government block Armenians from visiting Akhtamar. And let’s see what the world media would say: Armenians are banned for praying in the church, which was opened by the Turkish government as a sign of tolerance to Armenians and Christianity. Yes to Boycott. Bravo Hay Aspet.
Why are we making lighting candles a big deal? Some of the churches use battery operated candles on the altar for whatever excuses they have; examples- "the priest is allergic to smoke", "save candles", "they are messing the altar", etc.
We forget the most important matter that our next generation lit a light inside the dark walls of the church.
We have to stop being negative, please let somebody come up with a proposal. Let the Armenian lawyers' association, the doctors or any other professionals come together as humble Armenians (not as members of a political party, organization, citizen of a country or a relegion) and propose a positive plan.
Firstly, there have been others who have mentioned that their comments were not posted. I am not the only one. Secondly, I would appreciate it if you addressed your query directly to me, instead of a third person--if not in a brotherly manner then in a friendly way.
As to the clarification of my post regarding the pilgrimage of Armenians to Akhtamar, I believe it is significant that a huge number of Armenian pilgrims, in the thousands perhaps, if allowed by the Turkish authorities, would go to the church that has Armenian inscriptions, and as good Christians they will pray there. Something that has no precedent in Turkey. I take it you would agree that many non-Armenian media representatives will be there. It is indeed a very impressive change in Turkey's attitude towards their previous "rayas". You see, the Turkish "Voj" (style), is to give in "yavash-yavash" (by and by).
On the other hand, if we don´t go then the Turkish media, and by extension government, will broadcast to the world that Armenians do not wish to accept our "kind" invitation, although this is a veiled and intended for other purposes. I do not trust their sincerity yet, but we must play along with them. Preferably a more compromising mode,especially to the world, than an unrelenting rejection. Turkey would love to see the latter, so as to boast that they are compromising, whereas Armenians are not. Dialogue, in short, is better than shunning away their sugar-coated offerings.
Thence, by going we loose nothing on the contrary gain
I wonder how many Armenian Diaspora leaders, particularly Tashnagtsoutune heads, are reading the heart-rending comments in response to your "United We Stand..." editorial. And more importantly, how many of Tashnagtsoutune leaders will come forward to help unify the Diaspora and guarantee its survival? When will Tashnag leaders realize that the nation is more important than the Tashnag Party? When will they realize that without Diaspora Armenians, there will be no Tashnagtsoutune Party?
Tashnagtsoutune is the single largest Diaspora Armenian bloc, and the best organized entity. Willy-nilly, without Tashnagtsoutune's participation, there can't be a meaningul united Diaspora effort to guarantee the survival of our communities which are scattered around the globe. Thus, Tashnagtsoutune bears the responsibility to do the heavy lifting, rather than the Ramgavars or Hnchags.
I believe Tashnagtsoutune leaders should invite the heads of the other parties, organizations, etc. to a national gathering, to draw long-term plans on cooperation aimed at guaranteeing the vibrancy of the Diaspora. We have to do it ourselves: we can't expect help from the Republic of Armenia, where Tashnags rarely win more than 5% of the votes.
I, like many other concerned Armenians, am frustrated by the drifting (slow demise?) of the Diaspora. I don't know what it would take to make Diaspora realize that if it doesn't take action, our days outside Armenia are numbered. We are divided, even in far away communities where there are only a handful of Armenians. And divided about what? Pray tell what are these significant (?) difference which are more important than our surival?
Imagine this scenario from a history book or even from the movies: A city is under siege. It's surrounded by much-stronger attackers who are determined to bring down the city walls and exterminate its defenders. And inside the wall, the feckless defenders are fighting among themselves because they disagree on the colour of the uniform their soldiers should wear. This is what's been happening in the Diaspora since the early 1920s, and every year the defenders get weaker and still undecided on the colour of their soldiers' uniforms. But I can guess that if the defenders don't unite right now, the uniforms of everyone will soon be red.
I am not certain if this piece will see the light of the day on this forum. I wrote on another quite respected forum site that our Babiks, Mamiks are bound to go. As well as some who think as I do, thus:- Go if you must and show up in planned numbers. However, if the local authorities have again placed Ataturk image or turkish flag draped on facade of church or inside, stay out of the church.
Conduct the liturgy in the open air in a civilized manner. If they do not allow candles to be lit, so be it. But by not going there, that is the Turkish Government´s intention, if programmed to make it appear their complacency to world public opinion and diplomacy, which is very most probably so intended will bear fruit for them,not us.
On the other hand by a huge crowd of pilgrims making their way through ancestors' land and being there, at a thousand year old Armenian church on Armenian soil and as Armenian Pilgrims, is self explanatory... In short a good means presented to us proving authenticity of it being Armenian King Gagik Artzrouni´s dedication to Christianity.This indeed is more than important.
Blame it on the decimation of Armenian intellectuals in 1915 if you will, but the Armenian diaspora today has been reduced to a monolithic and mind-numbing emotional reaction to the national crisis of 1915, tempered by romantic notions about the long ago and far away. That's all there is and that's all we want or so it seems--even as Armenia approaches a potential national crisis in 2015.
But your survey of the sorry state of politics in the Diaspora is useful and informative, and your review of the cultural developments in Turkey is hopeful as well. While anger and grief may be sustaining Tashnagtsoutune (and perhaps the Church), with all due respect, after 95 years, they have contributed little to nation-building and don't play well in public.
Armenians have many admirable traits which have enabled our survival during our long history. Why are we not like the Babylonians, Sumerians, Incas or the Aztecs? These were great civilizations that were our contemporaries, but now do not exist. Yet we survive. That's the good news to ponder.
Unfortunately, modern Armenians are also driven by two negative forces--an obsessive hatred of Turks and an unhealthy, intra-competitive mentality. One of the results of the denied justice re the Genocide is that we are left bitter and full of hate. Although at times this can fuel activism, it also blinds us to opportunities. The current Akhtamar situation is an excellent example. We only see this from the perspective of mistrust and anger, thus the call for its boycott. As a result, we miss the chance to turn the tables on the Turks, get our message out to the world and take advantage of the situation. Our answer is to reject any possibilities because of our hatred of Turkey. This ignores the new realities and greatly limits our effectiveness. If we are truly commited to our cause, we must subordinate our anger to our goals.
In today's Armenian Diaspora it is not sufficient to identify one's self simply as Armenians. We are first Tashnags, Diocese, Prelacy, AGBU, etc. These are the vehicles by which we express our commitment, but the irony is that they have also come to represent intracompetive forces. For every option there is an alternative that looks at the other as competitor for the minds and wallets of individuals. We have the AYF or the ACYOA for the youth; we have the ARS and the AGBU for philanthropic projects. Many cities have a diocesan and a prelacy church. We have competing dioceses in three regions in North America etc, etc, etc.
Each of these groups is full of dedicated and hard -working people. The walls between them, especially how they view each other is at best sub-optimal and at worst amot!
The first change required is one of mindset. We need to express a true love of all people and organizations. This is not an idealistic or abstract notion. For example, when you meet an Armenian from your area who goes to a different church, be happy that he is a participant in our Church and community--and not view him as someone who goes to a church other than mine.
If major organizations conducted joint high-profile projects, we would begin to adopt new behaviors. It is sad to see active Armenians don't have the opportunity to work together because of our institutionalized walls.
I have great expectations for our people. Let's pray that we begin to change the paridigm and stay commited to our common purpose.
If the Turkish government is aiming at staging a public event to enhance its international image, why can't Armenians seize the opportunity and do the same to advance our cause? Clearly, protest is in order re Aghtamar, but in a respectful public worship at the ancient sacred site. The Hay Aspeth youth group members captured themselves for You-tube while being evicted from the church. That was easy, and all well and good, but is that all there is?
Bartholomew, the Greek Orthodox patriarch of Istanbul proclaimed on the CBS news show "Sixty Minutes" that he feels "crucified" by Turkish authorities. This is no doubt true. I've seen follow-up comments on the 60 Minutes website, disputing the accuracy of the story, the authority of Patriarch and the supremacy of the Orthodox Church. Is that what the public wants to hear?
How often do Armenians get the chance to publicly profess their Christian faith with dignity and courage and at a world cultural site with an international audience? Isn't that what Armenians and the world really NEED to see?
I, for one, am proud of the manner in which these young people behaved. It shows to the world that as hard as Turkey tries to rewrite history, each successive generation will continue to carry on the message of its ancestors. These youngsters who came from Armenia, showed the Diaspora a thing or two. Bless each and everyone of them.
The Genocide was committed ON land Ruled by the Ottomans AGAINST subjects of the Ottoman Empire BY other Ottoman subjects and of course the State as instigator whether they admit it or not.
So who can claim, well, Ottoman subjects of Armenian origin and their successors, mainly the Western Armenians and their heirs in the Republic of Turkey, Armenia or wherever they are in the world today
But to claim that, you have to prove your relation to the land or home you were removed from, you need documents, you need to prepare your file, you need to do research, you need to question those living from that era and record their memories before they fade out, you need to state somewhere.
I joined the Organization "Pan-Armenian conference of lawyers" created last September for the primary objective of preparing for such a claim, something similar to the Jewish claim. Their business oriented approach to the subject succeeded in securing huge compensations from Germany and other countries involved from that time to this time and the future too and with increasing amounts as well.
Sadly as everything else Armenian we lack coordination, communication and group effort. Every week you hear of another group of Armenian lawyers doing this and doing that; there is no collective effort, there is no UNIFIED approach. How can we succeed when there are a hundred captains and only one ship.
How right Vartkes is.....This is a Turkish ploy to pull wool over the world's acknowledgement of the Genocide. Akhtamar is a museum in the eyes of perfidious Turks....Just recently Armenian children who visited the church were forbidden to light candles.....What more this editorial needs to know the intentions of Turks?
WASHINGTON, DC—On August 11, in a unanimous opinion written by retired Associate Justice of the Supreme Court David Souter, sitting on a three judge panel including Michael Boudin and Jeffery R. Howard of the United States Court of Appeals for the First Circuit in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, affirmed the decision of a lower court dismissing the Griswold v. Driscoll case, in which plaintiffs argued for the inclusion of genocide denial literature in the Massachusetts human rights curriculum, reported the Armenian Assembly of America.
The suit filed in 2005 under the guise of a First Amendment case by the Assembly of Turkish American Associations (ATAA) and its supporters hoped to undermine the teaching of the Armenian Genocide in public schools by inserting genocide denial literature in the state mandated curriculum. ATAA was joined in its campaign by the Turkish American Legal Defense Fund, whose principal spokesperson, Bruce Fein, is one of the most vocal deniers of the Armenian Genocide. The Court’s decision effectively marks a major defeat for deniers.
The court explicitly ruled against ATAA for waiting so long to complain, and ruled against the individual plaintiffs on First Amendment and standing grounds. Significantly, the court decided that the Guide on Armenian Genocide instruction fit into the curriculum classification rather than a school library, and even if the school library cases did apply, that law would not allow the genocide denial actions that the plaintiffs sought.
The plaintiffs’ attorney Harvey Silverglate took the position that “contra-genocide” websites should be included in the curriculum, overlooking the inherent contradiction of “contra-genocide” information, which does hold a position on the Armenian Genocide by disputing or denying it. Silverglate also failed to advise the court that the websites in question, whether of the ATAA or the Turkish Embassy, display brazenly denialist pages on the Armenian Genocide, therein holding yet again a very distinct view of history, disqualifying them as either pedagogically objective or scholarly.
To read the First Circuit Court decision, click here.
The Boston Globe,12 August 2010
Schools can exclude materials disputing Armenian genocide
In a closely watched case, a federal appeals court yesterday ruled that statewide public school guidelines on teaching human rights history can exclude materials disputing that the mass slaying of Armenians in the First World War era constituted genocide.
The decision, written by retired Supreme Court justice David Souter, who occasionally hears cases with the First Circuit Court of Appeals, found that state education officials did not violate public school students’ free speech rights in 1999, when they excluded all “contra-genocide’’ sources calling the Armenian genocide into question.
Van Z. Krikorian, a professor at Pace University Law School who filed a brief defending the state’s move, said he was thrilled by the ruling, equating those who dispute the genocide designation to Holocaust deniers.
“It would have put human rights education in reverse,’’ he said. “It’s a major defeat for genocide denial.’’
Upholding a lower-court decision, the court ruled that although state guidelines were advisory, and “not meant to declare other positions out of bounds in study and discussion,’’ they were part of the official curriculum and therefore under the discretion of state authorities.
Requiring that officials include references to dissenting viewpoints, Souter wrote, “might actually have the effect of foreclosing future opportunities for open enquiry in the classroom.’’
Harvey Silverglate, a Boston civil rights lawyer representing the Assembly of Turkish American Associations, had argued that removing the references amounted to government censorship and prevented students from hearing both sides.
“It always is a sad day when a court constricts First Amendment rights rather than expand them,’’ he said. “I think they made a mistake.’’ Silverglate said his clients will consider whether to appeal.
The Turkish-American group disputes that the Muslim Turkish Ottoman Empire committed genocide against its Christian Armenian minority population. Over 1.5 million Armenians died at the hands of Turkish forces, but Turkish activists maintain it was not the result of a policy.
In 1998, the Legislature ordered the state Board of Education to prepare an advisory curriculum guide for teaching about genocide and human rights, and a draft of the guide initially included a section on the “Armenian Genocide.’’ Under pressure from Turkish advocacy groups, the commissioner of education, David P. Driscoll, revised the draft to include references to opposing views, said the ruling.
When officials filed the guide with legislators in March 1999, the state’s Armenian community protested the inclusion of “contra-genocide’’ viewpoints, and the education commissioner removed the references.
Actually the messiah that you are talking about is the only saviour of Armenians; it has to be the Russians (unfortunately). We have two options:
Live another 20-50 years maximum like this and then we will be history...
Ask Russians to take us in as part of their country, provided we keep our nationality, religion, right to vote for our leaders, education, etc.
The Russians would be happy that their southern region will not convert completely into a western regime, they will have the power to dictate our foreign policies, they will have control on our 'extra' resources, etc.
On the other hand, we will have full protection by their army, we will still exist even if we fall below 1million in population. We even can benefit from their resources and we don't have to worry about imminent war and extermination.
We have to be realistic and 'see' the facts that we don't have too many options anymore...
Notice how rarely the Armenian government even brings up, for example, the genocide issue in international forums.
We in the Diaspora need to have support from the Armenian state itself. This is not an excuse for the Diaspora not to act more forcefully, but I merely point it out.
The Armenian government often seems to acts as an extension of the Russian state, which of course could not care less about the Armenian genocide. To what extent is the Armenian government a puppet regime?
Any Armenian political party, specially Tashnagtsoutune, regard themselves as a higher entity than the nation of Armenia. Their interests come first than the nation's, their priorities are "higher"...
I will not be surprised if they denounce the Armenian state if their survival is based on such an act...
Asking Tashnagtsoutune to join forces with another entity is a big mistake, since their only strategy is to join-to-destroy other initiatives.
You are advocating that we should publicize the Akhtamar incident and try to get the attention of the public, media and Turks in that respect. It may do what?
A) The spot will become a prominent tourist attraction benefiting only the Turks
B) The Turks will show the world that they have renovated the place out of their own expense and the Armenians are trying to take ownership of it...
C) The media and the Turks can easily make a point that the place is a museum and not for worship. Touching, candles and other incense is forbidden in any museum. We lose the case either way!
If we don't have the Armenian government's backing, we shouldn't do anything in this respect, since this is a major issue only resolvable by political means. The Armenian government should let UNESCO and the World know that this is a religious place and belongs to Armenians and/or it shouldn't be represented as a museum only.
On surface this incident sounds to be a despicable act.
Please consider that the Church at present is designated as a Museum and not a place for prayer. Would any museum allow people to light candles in it?
Secondly, nowhere in the video shows that the "children were thrown out" of the church as some hot-headed people are reporting on various forums and individual mails.
Thirdly, and most important matter, leave the children out of politics please.
If you have a say as an adult then act accordingly. Raise your voice wherever you wish but don't hold children as hostages in a complicated political situation. Turkey will use the Mass at Aghtamar in September for political gains. Is the answer to that this video?
Turkish police ushered a group of Armenian children out of a 10th-century Armenian Christian church on the island of Akdamar in Anatolia after the children began lighting candles, singing hymns and engaging in prayer.
The church of Sourp Khatch, or Holy Cross, was a cathedral of the Armenian Apostolic Church dating back to the 10th century; its priests and monks were murdered and monastery at the church destroyed in the Armenian genocide of 1915. In 2005-06, as part of the fitful path toward reconciliation between Armenia and Turkey, the Turkish government launched a costly and controversial restoration of the cathedral building, which reopened in 2007 as a secular museum in a ceremony to which Armenian government officials and the international press were invited.
Since then, Turkish officials have been reluctant to allow any religious activities at the site beyond a service scheduled for the end of this month, a stance that has offended Armenian religious leaders. Meanwhile, some Muslim Turks have also protested the church's reopening on the grounds that a Christian place of worship, even if run as a museum, is inappropriate in a Muslim country.
Armenian children on field trip ousted for religious activities at Sourp Khatch church in Turkey
It was in this context that the visit of a group of Armenian schoolchildren to Sourp Khatch became an international incident. The children were on a field trip sponsored by an Armenian youth education group called Hay Aspeth (Armenian Knight). When the children began to light candles in the church, a Turkish policeman in the building told them they could not, as the soot from the candles would stain the church walls. The group then moved into the center of the room with their lit candles and began to sing and pray, at which point the police told them to leave the church.
The children and their escorts continued to sing and pray outside the building, on the church grounds, but police also disrupted their efforts to light incense and candles at gravestones and cross-stones in the churchyard.
The field trip, which ended Aug. 17, was sponsored by Hay Aspeth in order to introduce Armenian youth to the historic heart of Armenia, which lies today in eastern Turkey.
Some Turkish newspaper commentators have criticized the Turkish government's behavior in reopening the church as largely a publicity stunt to score points in the court of world opinion.
The so-called boycott will not be effective. The world media will cover the Holy Mass at Aghtamar. If any Armenian Party or organization has anything to say, they should attend the Mass, make it successfull, and express their feelings in front of the world media.
This brief article raises several important issues if and when Armenians seriously challenge Turkey to reclaim their rights, including lands. It appears that people are attempting to define the claimant. That I would consider progress in the path of exploring the correct legal grounds.
According to this article it's only the successors of the Genocide and not the entire Armenian body that can be the claimant. This seems to be logical. Yet, to my understanding, it's only a state, a country that can bring matters related to Genocide to International courts according to conventions recognized by international institutions. Where does that leave the present Republic of Armenia? The authors seem to exclude it. Can somebody knowledgeable of the legal issues clarify this matter please?
Գրությունս կրկին կարդալով,նկատեցի, որ իմ առաջարկած լուծումը (միտքը) թերի է:Լրացնելով միտքս ասեմ, որ Հայաստանին ու հայրենաբնակ մեր ժողովրդին սոցալիստական դինամիկ ու իրավահավասար ուղիով զարգացող նոր համակարգ կարող է փրկել տնտեսակական հետամնացությունից ու շահագործումից : Սովետական սոցիալիզմի կարոտախտով չեմ տառապում (հակառակ այն բանին, որ այն շատ դրական կողմեր ուներ): Կապիտալիզմը և նրա ազատ շուկայական հարաբերություններն իրենց դարը ապրել են : Վկան աշխարհի բնակչությանկեսից ավելին աղքատության, թշվառության, հիվանդության ու անգրագիտության մեջ գտնվելու փաստն է: Այդ դրամատիրական համակարգը հայաստանում հրաշք կատարել չի կարող:
Հայաստան ասելով ես հասկանում են Արևելյան Հայաստան, Արևմտյան Հայաստան՝ ներառյալ Արցախն ու Նախիջևանը: Հիշում եմ ցեղասպանության 50 ամյակի երևանյան ցույցերը, երբ գոռում էինք. «Արևմտյան Հայաստանի հողերը» ... Մեծանուն վիպասան Սերո Խանզադյանը զայրացած ասաց. «Ի՞նչ է , Արցախն ու Նախիջևանը հայկական հողեր չե՞ն»:
Այո՛, խոսքս ամբողջական Հայաստանի մասին է:
Թուրքիայի Հանրապետության իշխանությունները շատ են ցանկանում միջամտել Արցախի հարցերին: Ինձ թվում է դա այդքան էլ վատ « նախաձեռնություն» չէ:
Հայաստանի Հանրապետության իշխանություններն այս անգամ պետք է Թուրքիայի հետ բանակցության մեջ մտնեն նախապայմաններով, իրենց հետ ունենալով համայն հայությունը: Փոխարեն ուշացումով նախագահին «դավաճան» անվանելու , հասկանալի է, խելացի կլինի հիմա իմի բերենք մեր բոլոր հնարավոր միջոցները ( լինելով իրապաշտ ու չկտրվելով իրականությունից) պայքարենք մեր ազգային իրավունքների համար:
Հաագայի միջազգային դատարանի սեղանին ենք դնում հայոց դեմ գործադրված ցեղասպանության իրողությունը, Արևմտյան Հայաստանի տարածքային ու անշարժ գույքի խնդիրները , Նախիջևանի ու Լեռնային Ղարաբաղի հանրապետության ինքնորոշման հարցերը:
Դատարան Ներկայանում են Հայստանի Հանրապետությունը, Լեռնային Ղարաբաղի Հանրապետությունը, սփյուռքի Արևմտայան Հայաստանի ներկայացուչությունը (կազմվելիք), Թուրքիայի հանրապետությունը և Ադրբեջանի Հանրապետությունը:
Եթե Հայությունը հաստատակամ հավատում է իր ուժերին ու վճռականորեն պատրաստ է զոհողություններ կատարելու իր իրավունքներին հասնելու համար, կարծում եմ նշված մոդելը աշխատանքային ձև է: Թող այլոք ավելի խելացի մտքեր առաջարկեն: Նոր հեծանիվ չենք հնարում, աշխատանքային մեթոդիկան հայտնի է:
Սիրելի Պարոյր Աղպաշեան, Գեղարդ կայքէջում կարդացի « Մենք Ենք՝ Մեր Ցաւերը » քո շահեկան ու մտահոգություններով լի հոդվածը: Երկարամյա խմբագրապետիդ գրությունը քննարկել փորձելը անհամեստություն կլինի: Կանգ առնենք մի քանի առանցքային մտքերի վրա: Որ մեր ցավերը անվերջանալիօրեն շարունակվում են, անժխտելի փաստեր են (համաձայնվիր, որ մեծ մասը մեր մեղքով է): Հազար ու մեկ պատկերավոր գրություններով , մեծարժեք բանաստեղծություններով նկարագրել ու նկարագրում են ազգի գիտակ ու նվիրյալ մտածողները մեր ցավերը... Իմ համեստ կարծիքով, մեր մտավորականության մոտ գերիշխում է իրողությունների գրանցումն ու նկարագրությունը, և ակնհայտորեն պակսում է՝ Ի՞նչ անել հուժ կարևոր ուղեցույց հանդիսացող կուռ ու լուսավոր միտքը: Առաջին նախագահ Լևոն Տեր- Պետրոսյանի «Պայքար, պայքար մինչև վերջ» և գործող նախագահ Սերժ Սարգսյանի «Առաջ Հայաստան» ոչ նպատակասլաց ու մշուշապատ Ի՞ՆՉ ԱՆԵԼՆԵՐԸ Հայաստանին ու Արցախին և նաև Սփյուռքին մտցրեցին քաղաքական, տնտեսական ու ազգաին բոլոր առումներով փակուղի:
Սիրելի Պարոյր, ցավերի տեղը գիտենք,« Կրնայ ըլլալ որ բոլորին նպատակը նոյնն է, բայց ձեւն ու ժամանակը՝ տարբեր, այդուհանդերձ, ներելի՞ է նախապատուութիւններու շարքը նոյնը պահել, երբ Հայաստանի մէջ դասակարգայնութիւնը խոր արմատներ սկսած է նետել՝ պալատականներու բացարձակատիրութեամբ, անդին՝ Արցախի լինելիութեան գրաւականները կը շահագործուին ոմանց կողմէ՝ ներքին թէ արտաքին միջամտութիւններով, մինչ Սփիւռքը՝ կը խարխափի իր ցաւերուն ու տագնապներուն մէջ, մերթ յամեցող բեւեռացումներով, մերթ անտարբերութիւններու եւ անտեսութիւններու շատացումով:»
Առաջարկեք լուծում՝ Ի՞ՆՉ ԱՆԵԼ: Ես ունեմ իմ լուծումը՝ Կեցցե Հայաստանի Սոցիալիստական Հանրապետությունը: Երևանյան ողջույններով, ուսանողական տարիների ընկեր՝ Արամայիս Միրզախանյան Ստոքհոլմ, 16 08 2010 aramais.m@live.se
Gergrortem esadzet Serj, bedk e zkouch ellal Terenig-en, manavant vor al chad vad anoun ouni haygagan cherchanagi mech. Zarmanalin ayn e vor kani me dariner arach, irarou tem baykar ounetsadz en (Terenig vs. Appahayr).
Your essay comes at a perfect time. About six months ago I began reading everything I could about the hotly debated Armenian Genocide. I had no preconceived notions;I just wanted to find out what was and was not true. Was it genocide? Did it really happen? Then, something interesting happened. I have a friend who is a professional reader/book scout. She sneakes me copies of the best/most entertaining books she gets. She sent me "GARDENS OF GRIEF" by Boston Teran, which she says will be published next spring. It's about the Armenian Genocide. It's set in Turkey of 1915: fiction but based on historical facts. What a read! – a fierce retelling of the events in 1915 Turkey seen through the eyes of a young American, an agent of the Bureau of Investigation and the U.S. State Department. I researched the facts laid out in the book. They are true, harrowing, frightening. This is a great book. Will it be controversial? Yes. It convinced me that history–the facts–support the Armenian claim: there was an Armenian Genocide. I don't think they'll like the book in Turkey.
This article says, "The organizers of such events would do better to tell the youth to march on the Presidential Palace and have Sargsyan declare Armenia’s recognition of the NKR."
Yes, and to march on the Russian embassy and tell it to stop kissing up to Turkey, bidding to sell Turkey weapons, building power plants for Turkey and supplying it with natural gas, as well as forcing its "ally" Armenia to sign the infamous protocols. And tell Russia to stop kissing up to Azerbaijan and selling it weapons.
Then march on the American embassy and European embassies and make similar protests.
None of these countries are Armenia's friends. They have all used and abused us throughout history. Young people and older ones, too, must learn the history of these betrayals.
Why are Armenians letting countries who betrayed us (France, US, Russia) negotiate an alleged peace agreement with Azerbaijan? Why do Armenians trust any of these countries? Why do not young people know the history how those countries have betrayed Armenians so that history does not repeat itself?
According to Mr. Mekhitarian's article, Terenik Koujakian is involved in the Mekhitarian School. The money to be barrowed to pay taxes to EED and IRS would NOT be deposited in the Mekhitarian bank account but that of Terenik's.
Some dacades ago, Mr. Terenik was involved in ousting Mr.Injejikian, the founder of the first Ferrahian Armenian High School in the United States. After reaching his goals, Mr. Terenik disapeared from the Ferrahian school. Now he has surfaced again to do damage to the Mekitarians.How did he get involved with the Mekhitarians?
Such an honest and sobering commentary on Armenian affairs is refreshing. Also, thanks to your first commenter for pointing out the tragic disconnect between higher education and nation building in Armenia. But, perhaps the crushing pain and humiliation of 20th century Armenian history is finally lifting so that we can begin to see the world as it really is.
University students in Armenia upon receiving their diploma need to have jobs in their specialities, in what they studied. To survive many of the graduates are working in areas that do not need qualifications, and others seek jobs consistent with their level of education outside Armenia.
I witnessed it; I was in Armenia in May and received a lot of complaints about this lack of attention of the government and society towards the university graduates.
I am glad that there are people like Mr.. Mekhitarian that have the courage to write, and open the public's eyes on what's behind the closed curtains of Mekhitarian Congregation today.
It will be a pleasure to have a conversation with Mr. Mekhitarian discussing theses matters.
It bothers me to read, in respected newspapers, words such "եւ տակաւին կը գործէ կրկնակի ամբարտաւանութեամբ։" (Calling Appahayr AMPARDAVAN). I am against high-interest loans and the mismanagement of the Congregation' resources, but I do not accept, in any newspaper, words which insult persons. Vosgan Mkhitarian could have brought this matter to public attention in different ways, rather than write in the following way: "Առաջին անգամ չէ որ Հայր Եղիա Քիլաղպեան կը հալածէ Հայր Օգոստինոսը։ 2000 թուականէն սկսեալ մաղձ մը ունի այս ծերունի վարդապետին դէմ, որուն յառաջացման մէջ կային նաեւ անցեալի ա՛յլ տխրահռչակ դերակատարներ, որոնք այդ խաղաբեմէն հեռացած են այսօր։ 2004 թուականի դատավարութիւնները, որոնք հսկայական ծախսերու ենթարկեցին թէ՛ դպրոցը եւ թէ՛ միաբանութիւնը, ածխամատիտով արձանագրուած են միաբանութեան պատմութեան էջերուն մէջ, ի վերջոյ արատաւորելով ամբողջ միաբանութեան վարկը։ Կարծէք անցեալի այս տխուր դէպքերը երբե՛ք դաս չեղան Հայր Եղիային, որուն յանձնուած է, դժբախտաբար եւ անարժանաբար, փառաւոր անցեալ ունեցող միաբանութեան մը ղեկը) and ( իր կոպիտ հրահանգները)."
What kind of expressions are these highlighted words? ("Maghz uni, geh halazeh aradavorel miyapanutyan vargeh, tjpaghtapar yev anarjanapar ghege yeghaz eh.")
Dear Keghart readers, who gave the right to Mr. Mkhitarian to put an important subject such as he claims in such expressions which do not relate to Appahayr Yeghia's character?
We all want investigation and control because the Mkhitarian Congregation is an important Christian and Armenian institution, but I do not accept such street-level articles. For God sake, let us be constructive critics rather destructive.
B. Aghbashian's approach to our most important problems is highly appreciated. Armenia, Artsakh and Diaspora equally invite our full attention and full support.
We hope to organize our socio-intellectual brain power, to purify the ideas expressed therein and to create a solid ground for our national ideology.
I am not a fan of partisan politics, and certainly not of Mr. Aghbashian's socio-political ideology. In addition, his dry style has discouraged me from reading his articles, likewise the convoluted arguments and excessive superlatives.
This piece sounds to be a change, a breath of fresh air. Maybe at the time of his writing he was not under the daily stress of party politics and his many years of public service has broadened the contextual base.
His depiction of matters is relevant to what the Diaspora is experiencing. It's in pains, but not of conception or birth. It's the excruciating ache of rotting bones, signalling the collapse of the skeleton within the body. Once that skeleton has dissolved, there won't be a recognizable figure. That's where we are at now.
Are other matters less important, such as Armenia and Artsakh? Obviously not, but the Diaspora needs a lifeline, and I would agree with the author's recommended remedies.
One final remark. I hope that Mr. Aghbashian, and others like him, continue to write and lecture on matters of Armenolgy, and express concerns of a wider range, as is done in this guest editorial. Brevity of expression is appreciated.
I made an effort to read all available articles on Keghart.com written by Mr. Vosgan Mekhitarian. Is it a coincidence that his name and that of the congregation are the same? All contain materials that it's hard to think they are fabricated. What surprises me is the absence of public response by the congregation itself to these allegations, unless I have missed them. Something which is not unlikely.
It would serve the public's interest if somebody could clear the air and either refute the allegations of mismanagement and a behaviour almost bordering incompetence or provide a plausible explanation of why things are run the way they are.
Let me remind only one instance amongst many. It's almost unbelievable that a lawn that bears an interest rate in double digits is favoured against another which is less by more than half. Is this a made up story? Any member of the non-profit organization mentioned by Mr. Mekhitarian, I think, can simply visit Bank of America and verify.
Probably Boghos Mardirossian, who has commented, is partly correct in stating that character and personalities should be off limit. That for the sake of not confusing issues at hand with traits and what not of persons involved. Their actions surely should be looked at and investigated for as long as they affect "Armenian Life" as he terms it.
In this day and age nobody is beyond public scrutiny, not even presidents and prime ministers or the Pope. Would it be "insulting" to add the revered Appahayr Yeghia's name on this list? Nobody is infallible. One might be a great teacher and spiritual leader but lack the skills of management.
Dear All supporters of Vosgan writings about Appahayr Yeghia,
We should learn from the civilized world that we are not allowed to overpass our freedom of writing and insult people and degrade their personalities because of personal or public affair issues.
Let us be intelligent enough to respect "Hankamanks" and only discuss the subject in objective and scientific way . What will I benefit or other Armenian reader benefit when Mr. Vosgan shamelessly insults a famous Armenian figure like Hayr Yeghia Appahayr. Mr. Vosgan has no right to insult anybody but has the right to express his opinion about any matter related to Armenian life.
I would have respected him more if he would have not agressively attacked Appahayr's person. It is not his job or right. Who does he think of himself, the angel of Mekhitarists without any personal faults? We all have mistakes but nobody will accept Mr. Vosgan's way of insulting articles on an important and respected Armenian Mekhitarist congregation leader.
I never forget my Moorat Raphael years and their high influence on my education. I am grateful first to my saviour Jesus Christ and then to my Mekhitarist teachers like Hayr Levon Zekian, Hayr Raphael Andonian, Hayr Yeghia (Now Appahayr), Hayr Mikael (Mkho) and Hayr Vertanes (God bless their both souls), Hayr Ghugas and Hayr Hosep and many others...... All of them prepared strong Armenian generations who are now all around the world. What did Vosgan give to Armenians? Do we want to accept his insults of Appahayr. "Kav Litzi" Baron Vosgan, that will never happen.
Now I am alone responding to him; you will recieve hundreds of letters in support of Appahayr Yeghia because we all love that Heros Appahayr who is running our beloved and respected Congregation . Nobody is allowed to speak or write insulting letters on Appahayr Yeghia. Please go ahead and criticize his work but not his pure and good personality.
I am baptized in Armenian Orthodox Church and have married in Armenian Evangelical Church. We have baptized our elder son in Armenian Orthodox Church and our younger and last child in Armenian Evangelical Church. However, I had never set foot in an Armenian Catholic Church until this past December 24 Christmas Eve when for the very first time, I attended Mass in the Armenian Catholic Church in Glendale, California because I happened to be in LA.
I admit that I had remained uninformed all my life about the Armenian Catholic Church. Attending Mass in the Armenian Catholic Church for the very first time became an eye-opening education to me. Hearing the Mass in Armenian and the sermon in an impeccable Armenian, seeing the carvings on the walls of the church of our great religious leaders, the exquisite sanctuary and the impressive complex will forever remain etched in my memory as first impressions are lasting impressions. Henceforth, whenever there is an Armenian Catholic Church I will head there on December 24 to celebrate Christmas and I urge all Armenians to do so along with the January 6 Armenian Christmas Celebration.
I have never met Appahayr Yeghia but I have remained so impressed by him because of the short presentation I read about him for the very first time in Kessabtsis Yearbook and Directory. I admit I am biased in favor of Kessabsis. I took the liberty and wrote the following about Appahayr Yeghia in the article titled Kessab Ousoumnasirats Celebrates Centennial that Keghart graciously published on January 8 of this year. In that article I wrote the following about Appahayr Yeghia “Father Yeghia Kilaghbian left Kesssab at the age 13 to attend the Mkhitarian monastic order on San Lazaro Island in Venice, and is now the Abbot of the Mkhitarian order famed for its Armenian scholarship.” I regard his quest for life long celebrates priesthood in service to God and people a vivid testimonial of a devoted man.
Lately I have been reading controversial assessments about Appahayr Yeghia. It is a common knowledge that “motive” is the primary driver when investigating a misdeed. I believe the Keghart readers will be better informed if the motives behind this controversy are discussed and not the controversy per se.
Reading these articles and letters, naturally I wonder, what could possibly the motives of Appahayr Yeghia be? It does not seem plausible that a life long celibate priest of the order not to have the best intentions for the order in his own way. He is the Appahayr, which I assume is the highest authority of the order. All may not share Appahayr’s actions and decisions. However, it is his prerogative to make such decisions in his best judgment. Therefore the reader will be better informed if the perceived ill intended motives of the Appahayr are discussed rather than the decisions of the Appahayr that may not sit well with some or many.
Yete ays nyuti masin ches kider, avelort e kaghaparner dalet. Amen inch vor kervadz e appahor masin djisht eh. Gerna ellal tsezi shad lav mart ge tever payts grnam esel vor yergeresani ants men eh. Baron Vosgan-e inkn al zoh katsadz e sireli appahoret kathcakordzoutyounneroun.
Your Hidden agenda of dissolving Mekhitarist congregation will not be sucessful Mr. Vosgan.
Once an Indian Muslim asked Mahatma Ghandi to get converted from Islam to Hinduism. The great leader instead of encouraging his Muslim admirer said, "In spring the beauty of the garden comes with many colours of flowers, not with one colour".
Armenian Christian life's beauty is in its diversity and not having one adminstrative Christian administration. We are not communists lead by one centre. We like to be united with each other much like the founding fathers who wrote the American constitution, but held their varying views as intellectuals.
You are living in the United Sates of America and not in the Republic of China. Although all the States are united together, each has its own local legislature, laws and governor, serving under one flag. The citizens of each state feel responsible for the protection, success and progress of USA.
Let us be constructive critics of Armenian life in general rather than destructive. Mekhitarist "chah" is shining forever and I think verchaluyse will never come and God forbid that day. Jesus our Lord will not allow that.
I am a 1987 Moorat Raphael College graduate. I have known Hayr Appahayr Yeghia since then, when he was my history teacher. He was one of my best teachers and a model of humility and intelligence, a highly educated elder father and brother to me. There is a belief that people rarely change. When I knew Father Yeghia, he was in his late thirties. Now he is in his late fifties or early sixties.
Dear readers of Keghart, Father Appahayr Yeghia is the same person and with the same character that I knew him in the '80s. I do not believe Osgan, the so-called outspoken critic of the Armenian clergy. Father Yeghia is a valuable member of the Armenian Mekhitarist congregation. I understand the democracy of Keghart, but dear Keghart editor, before you publish such a report, consider that it has has no basis in fact and divides a valuable Armenian congregation and injures its reputation--specially the reputation of such a big vartabed, who is now Appahayr and who prepared generations of Armenian intellectuals in Diaspora and has dedicated his life to Jesus and to Armenian communities in Diaspora.
Dear Editor of Keghart, ask what Mr. Osgan gave to Armenian life other than his divisive article and his planting of hatred and suspicion for a great and humble man such as Appahayr Hayr Yehghia. When I read the hatred-filled article, I had to write about the real Hayr Yeghia. God bless his soul and his work. May Jesus protect him from jealous and selfish people, and hidden agenda holders such as Mr. Osgan.
Dear Editor of Keghart, now you have the responsibility to clarify and give the same opportunity to Hayr Appahayr Yeghia, and specially to his surp congregation of Mekhitarians and others like me who believe you are not an unwilling partner to people like Mr. Osgan, who mess with the reputation of a 300-year-old Armenian congregation.
Hayr Yehghia represents that congregation. Most of the congregation members voted for him. He is not a dictator. He is an honest and intelligent clergyman, who united the Vienna and Venice Mekhiitarist congregations. It is a big accomplishment. Now people like Osgan are writing false information about Appahayr Yeghia. I and thousand other Mekhitarist representatives refuse such untrue accusations by Mr. Osgan. If I had been a lawyer in LA, I would have sued people like Mr. Osgan for their false accusations against the Armenian clergyman.
We need to remember what the Mekhitarist congregation has given to the Armenian nation. Let us respect Hayr Ghevont Alishan, the great Armenian historian; Taniel Varujan; and Mgrdich Beshigtashlian. Mr Osgan has the nerve to speak about the present head of that remarkable Armenian congregation. Although the character of a Mekhitarist father cannot be judged by the great fathers of the past, knowing Hayr Yeghia, the great teacher and brother, I will not allow anyone to malign him because Hayr Yeghia deserves respect from every Armenian in Diaspora and in Mayr Hayasdan.
God bless you Hayr Yeghia. I know you are above all this undignified talk. May God protect you and our congregation.
Up until last year, my 11th pilgrimage to RA, there was a news weekly published by the Hamshentsi(s) in Yerevan and the name of the paper was "Hamshentsiner".
I sent them a few e-mails, but received no response.
May be they went out of print or else were not well disposed to have an "intruder".I wonder. Hope they continue to publish though.
All Hamshen people in Germany know you...The Imam of Hattersheim promised to give a special interview for keghart in September, when I will be once more here. Don't lose hope at all! The Convert Armenians and Zaza movement for identity is in Renaissance here and Western Armenia, as I saw it this time around.
Over the past couple of days I have received many emails (some cordial, some not so much) about my earlier post on meeting with the Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
The level and intensity of the response compelled me to write a follow-up post.
The purpose of this blog as designed by senior editors charged with training and development at the Toronto Star, was to provide a forum for student interns and student journalists to write and share their experiences, both within the journalism world and their activities outside of it.
I was invited to write about my experiences in Turkey this past month to provide an exploratory perspective on the country and the issues the country is facing based on the people I was fortunate enough to meet while there -- all with the full disclosure that I am still a student and still learning the various topics that I brought up in my post.
Referring to my post on the Armenian genocide, I first want to clarify that I am by no means questioning whether the horrible events of 1915 took place -- I wrote the blog because I felt that it was interesting to share the strong standpoint that members of the Turkish government were putting forward, vastly in contrast to much of the international political community and academic consensus on the issue.
When I wrote in the post about the urge to do more research after the meeting and to become your own critic of events, I was speaking for my newfound curiosity to sit down with several books on the topic, and to try to understand how and why the Turkish government continues with their narrative and disbelief of the genocide despite the strong scholarly evidence and the consensus of the international political community, documents and books that I wanted and would like to read in the coming months.
Finally, there is an error I would like to correct from the original post - there have been several governments around the world that have officially recognized the Armenian genocide, including Canada, with this link providing the list of countries as one commenter kindly provided.
Having now returned to Canada after a month in the country, I maintain that Turkey is one of the most interesting and dynamic countries moving deeper within the 21st century, and extremely beautiful, from the mountains of Cappadocia, the ancient mosques of Istanbul, to the ruins along the Mediterranean coast.
I am looking forward to watching how the country navigates its position along the traditional East-West divide in the international political community, and how it chooses to handle the various domestic issues it is facing, with the military, women and gay rights, and with ethnic minorities.
Jasmeet Sidhu is a graduate of Peace and Conflict Studies at the University of Toronto. She worked for the Star in the radio room last summer, and writes a blog for the Star on climate change, where she covered the UN Climate Change conference in Copenhagen. In mid-June she will join the Star's summer intern program. Follow Jasmeet on Twitter.
Sorry for the shameless self-promotion, but I would like to point the book I edited on the topic, published three years ago: "The Hemshin: History, Society and Identity in the Highlands of Northeast Turkey" (London: Routledge, 2007)
My late father-in-law, Mehran (Hovsepian) was born Altebarmakian in a town he called Ereyle in the province of Konya in Turkey. He was born in 1914 and his family was not subjected to deportation thanks to his father’s – Hovsep’s - business partners who were Turks. His younger sister was born around 1917 in the same town.
However, his father died not much later due to illness. In early 1920’s, my father-in-law’s mother realizing they are the only or one of the few Armenian families remaining in Ereyle moved the family to Lattakia Syria to be close to her sister’s family. It is in Lattakia that my mostly Turkish speaking father-in-law was taught Armenian, under the tutelage of a famous Armenian writer, Armen Anoush. My father-in-law thus grew up in Lattakia and lived in Beirut as well.
While they were in Beirut, the Turkish family who were my father-in-laws’ father’s business partners made an effort and came to Beirut to look for them and tracked down my father-in-law’s family consisting of his mother, brother and sister for a reunion for old time’s sake. Thus my wife’s paternal grandfather is buried in Ereyle – Turkey. I have always been curious as to where Ereyle is in the district Konya. Ereyle may be what my father-in-law remembers the name of the city or town he was born in as he left at a young age. I will appreciate if you would find out about Ereyle or a town with similar sounding in Konya and let me know of its whereabouts.
Dear Faruk,
To contact your relatives in Beirut, you have to provide your name, email address, their names. Perhaps a Keghart subscriber would recognize them. At one time there were more than 150,000 Armenians in Lebanon. The number is less now because of emigration. You can also trace them through Church records--birth, weddings, funerals, etc. Your best bet is to contact the Cilicia Catholicate in Antelias, Lebanon, a suburb of Beirut. Google them for their address. Good luck.
As a Turk who respects all nations, especially neighbours who have the same Anatolian culture, love, fury, music etc.
I recently found out that a sizable portion of my maternal relatives are voluntarily converted Armenians from Akbez, Cilicia, while the rest of my non-convert relatives had gone to Beirut. My great-grandfather from my maternal side was an Armenian Ottoman land registry officer in Aleppo. Although I am Turkish and Moslem, I would like to find my relatives in Beirut, to discover what has been lost of our family's memory.
Well...maybe we do not have any Nobel Prize winners, but consider these: The ink used on the USA paper money, used until 20 years ago, was invented by an Armenian in early 1800s. This ink never dried and was the only way to find out if it was genuine or not. The first silk worms were brought to US by an Armenian...
Somehow Chauvinian had eluded me as an Armenian family name. It is said that our last names refer to a trade, region, a physical feature, a prominent person, etc. I could not relate the Chauvinians to any such source. It would not be, I thought, in reference to chauvinism, which according to Wikipedia primarily means “an exaggerated, bellicose and a blind belief in national superiority and glory.” Chauvinism is not an Armenian word. Then again, who knows? Our Cilician kings were “Lousssinians”. Of course I meant to say Lusignan, who also hailed from France much like Mr. Chauvinian.
As to Avedis or his likes, how I wish one of them became the measuring stick in one of those “Little things like Nobel Prizes, for instance". I mean, we all would have been genuinely proud. Would any reader say otherwise?
Very well said. Here is another anecdote about Khatchadourian . When I was student in Geneva, Switzerland in the early 1960s he visited and gave a concert in Geneva. The very intellectual newspaper Journal de Geneve wrote an article about the "RUSSIAN " composer. Of course I sent them a letter and explained that he is Armenian, he should not be called a Russian but a Soviet citizen.
Re Chauvinian...
1. I didn't think it was funny--and not because I consider myself an Armenian patriot.
2. It was old hat. There was no new twist or perception.
3. The writer took forever to get to the point.
4. The ending petered out.
5. Chauvinism is a natural and necessary defense mechanism of minorities--racial, religious, gender, etc. Experience has demonstrated that if a minority doesn't insist that it exists, that it contributes to the "greater society", the ruling/majority society will push it beyond the fringe to extinction and appropriate the minority's contributions. From countless examples, let one suffice. Thirty years ago I bought an album titled "Great Russian Composers." Among them was Aram Khachaturian. If we don't repeat to ourselves and to others that Khachaturian is Armenian, nobody would. The album also featured Caesar Cui. He was Lithuanian, while Borodin was Georgian.
6. Chauvinism is not just a minority monopoly behaviour. Even powerful nations can be "accused" of it, with the USA sitting in the driver's seat. Despite its millions of contributions, the USA makes every effort to shamelessly and greedily appropriate, assimilate the contributions of various racial/ethnic/national groups as its own. Hundreds of Canadian actors, for example, have gone to Hollywood for fame and money, yet you never hear that Dan Aykroyd, Jim Carrey, Lorne Greene, Raymond Burr, William Shatner, Yvonne de Carlo, Glenn Ford, Norman Jewison, Rich Little, Raymond Massey and hundreds other Hollywood luminaries are Canadian. Meanwhile, Canada and Egypt claim Atom Egoyan as their own.
While above news is heartening and encouraging, as I indicated earlier... to get our Armenian Bar Association involved and join forces with said law firm, it is regrettable that news broadcast from RoA TV channel(s) describe it as being a class action suit by the entirety of the Diaspora. It was clearly pointed out by the said law firm that it was on behalf of two plaintiffs--one from NY, the other LA.
Such incorrect newscasts create misgivings, to say the least. The persons editing the news items on Yerevan TV stations should read carefully the original disclosure by the authors and then telecast them. This ought to apply to all such news from Diaspora to the fatherland
This article became educational for me as well. I also had not heard of the Herero Genocide neither of Whitaker Report. I quote from Wikipedia : “In 1985, the United Nation’s Whitaker Report recognized Germany's attempt to exterminate the Herero and Nama peoples of South-West Africa as one of the earliest attempts at genocide in the 20th century. The German government apologized for the events in 2004.” The Whitaker Report can be read on line. It is about the prevention and punishment of the crime of genocide and is named after the author.
I have to confess I did not know about the Herero genocide (not even Samantha Power mentioned it in her excellent book A Problem from Hell. Clearly the Armenian (+ Assyrian + Greek) genocide took place (at least partly) because the former was forgotten in less than 10 years.
The trouble with genocide victims is that we compete – by means of superlatives like first, most, cruellest and other “st”s – for the honor of being the most relevant, to the point of ignoring - or even sabotaging - others’ quest for recognition, instead of joining hands to effectively tell human society of all the horrors of the past century or so.
Excellent article. Everything you said in this article is so true. I am surprised no one even bothered to say thank you, Dr. Kaplan. On behalf of all Armenians and humanity, I THANK YOU!
This and the previous ones conducted and won by aforementioned attorneys Kabateck and Geragos and Yeghiayan, may hopefully encourage the ABA (The Armenian Bar Association with a membership of 500) to take real Action for the total loss of those Armenians evicted from ancestral lands, real property as well as riches confiscated by Ottoman Turkey. There is no statute of limitations on such Claims.
It is only a question of time when the ABA will join forces with above said group and carry forward our demands.
Fellows, this guy is not Mexican, nor is he American. He is the same guy who keeps changing his name from Umurhan to Umr to Han and now to Mexican-American. I can tell from his writing style (see my comments in previous editorials). He is a cheap propagandist working for the Republic of Turkey. Mexicans are great people and we respect them and their culture, regardless what this guy is preaching.
Mr. Geragos, let's not settle this one for peanuts again. Get an accountant to figure out the present value (PV) of these losses. Not only we should get what is owed to us, but we should also get a huge sum for punitive damages. Best of luck to you, hayrenagits!
While this is a deviation as a response to Hovann Simonian's article, but nontheless I need to clarify an impression I did not mean to leave. I did not mean to imply Armenians being Christians in the spiritual sense of the world. I would not be a judge of who is a Christian or not from that sense. However, up the great religious schisms that happened within us with the Catholic and Evangelical movements, all of us belonged to the Armenian Apostolic church and all of us were baptized there with Holy Muron. It would have been unthinkable to be an Armenian and not having baptized with Holy Muron in the Armenian Apostolic Church. The Armenian Catholic Church and the Armenian Evangelical Churches did away with the baptismal with Holy Muron, which at that time, would have amounted to pure and simple heresy. I am sure some Armenians are not baptized at all, or are baptized in an odar church. However, the overwhelming majority of us are still baptized in Armenian Apostolic, Catholic and Evangelical churches. The Muslim reality will be a new reality for us. Imagine an Armenian Islamic Mosque in LA or Beirut or Berlin. I am not sure how will that fare with the mainstream Muslims and it will be challenge for the Armenian Muslims to celebrate St. Vartanats for example to integrate into the Armenian Core as Hovann Simonian defines the mainstream Armenian reality.
Do we know how many Armenians practice Christianity?
Is it being Christian to attend church "zadigeh zadig", or when we are in trouble to say "Ya Hissous" or to cross the dough when making bread ..and so on?
To my knowledge the Hashemites too practice some of these traditions.
I am sure few of us have read the full text of the International Court of Justice (ICJ) decision re Kosovo and Serbia. Someone who has is Milan Markovic, New York-based lawyer and teaching fellow at Temple University in Philadelphia. In Toronto's Globe and Mail (July 31), he wrote an article ("What the Kosovo ruling means for Canada:trouble"), where he said, "What the court [ICJ] did find was that secessionist groups are not obligated to respect the territorial integrity of the country from which they are trying to secede. Nor are they prohibited from unilaterally declaring independence against the will of that country..."
The above, of course, is good news for Artsakh, especially since Artsakh and Nakhichevan were illegally wrested from Armenia and given to Azerbaijan by Stalin to appease the Turks and to keep Southern Caucasus off balance on a permanent basis.
Hovann Simonian’s lengthy article lumps up issues that are real, yet not necessarily linked. His assertion that the articles relating to the “Turkified, Kurdified and Islamicized” Armenians “do not appear to take into account the opinion of the very people concerned” is not true, as far as I am concerned.
No one is pointing or can point a gun to these “very people” if they themselves do show an innate desire to return to their roots. It is apparent, though, many do seek their roots and in my view, we should welcome them whether the Armenian core is melting away or not, or whether the Mekhitarian Order is in state of bankruptcy or not, or whether the Armenians in Lebanon attend non- Armenian schools or not and so forth. It seems Simonian is implying that our response to these “very people” should be: Hold on, stay where you are, we have issues here we need to take care of before can devote the time and energy to you. I do not find that response productive and right. Whether it is one Muslim or many, the issue of Islamized Armenians brings a historical reassessment of what constitutes being an Armenian. Since King Trdad converted and became Christian and ordered the nation to do the same as our historian Movses khorenatsi relates, being an Armenian and Christian have been one and the same. Some historians claim that King Trdad’s conversion was not necessarily driven by religious considerations only. It became a means for the King to rid the kingdom of the undue influence of the pagan priesthood and make temporal power dominant in the religious affairs of the country. To this day our Catholicos is not elected solely by a college of bishops or archbishops, but with the participation of the laity. The Catholicos occupies the St. Gregory’s Throne by the “will of God and election of the people”. At the dawn of the 21st century a historical development faces us, that of Muslim Armenians, which may or may not color the Armenian core, whether the later is melting away or not.
Dear Dr. Davidian,
Definitely you have focused on what really matters.
I agree with your letter 100%.
Best regards from an "active" friend of Artsakh.
Migirdic MIgirdicyan
WOW! How true. My sentiments exactly. "Iravunke mishd zoravorin eh" (might is always right). I hope every Armenian feels this way. "Meyayn kaghakaganoutiamp gah hayots pergutiun" (Politics is the only salvation for the Armenian people). Let us learn from the Jews (anonk perteh nercen kravats en); let us encourage our youth to get involved in politics and help them become future Congressmen and Senators, and only then can we make our government do the right thing. Recognize the Armenian Genocide and make Turkey pay for its crimes. BRAVO!
I understand and appreciate the concerns brought forth in this editorial, but I do not understand why our people have not understood the nil value of international courts, the UN Charter and similar pieces of internatioal law junk. You can flush them down the toilet, as far as I am concerned. When it comes to reality, all is decided by force, whether it be political-economic pressure or blood spilled on the battle field. Just have a look around you and try to interpret the cases of Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Cyprus and others in the frame of those same international laws. Do they fit? How are they being applied? Would you call Saddam Hussein's trial an example of law and justice or simple murder and revenge (to shut his mouth before he could expose US misdeeds)? Enough is enough. Why are we fooling ourselves with these hypocritical volumes of paper? Let's drop the mask and accept humanity for what it is... the same beast as it was in Stone Age or earlier.
Regarding Karabakh, I have no doubt that the superprostitutes (no offense, but prostitutes have incomparably more dignity) will trample on all the rights and wishes of the people of the land. They will even be willing to exterminate whole nations for their interests. What do you expect of such states when they are prepared to sacrifice thousands of their own ciizens for the sake of creating an excuse for intervention here and there? I have not eaten my brains with cheese to believe that 911 or the Moscow bombings were the work of Al-Qaeda or Chechen rebels. Even if by some miracle Azerbaijan and Turkey are pressured to accept the reality of Karabakh, how long do you think their recognition will last? I am sure that as soon as they feel the moment is in their favour, they will put aside all the treaties and fulfill what they have been dreaming of for a thousand years: Wiping out all non-Turkic nations on the lands Turks have invaded. In my view, we have nothing to lose. It's an existential matter for us. I am sure that their appetite will not end upon swallowing Karabakh. The more you give the more they will demand. It has been like that for ages, and I have no reason to believe that it will be any different in the future.
The only thing that could make them and their "super" friends think twice is our capacity to generate havoc and inflict serious pain. That's where we should focus all our efforts. We should make it clear to them that in our addition to the military, our primary targets would be the interests of the international whores--the petroleum and gas infrastructures. I do not look at the Azerbaijani people (except its blood-sucking elite) as enemies. I feel sorry for them since they are pawns in this dirty game and as usual whenever hostilities break out ordinary civilians suffer most. If things turn bad, the elite has its fortunes safely tucked in banks abroad and is always prepared to flee.
What concerns the so-called international community is our capacity. They can repeat the Turkish proverb "Sen salla bashini; ben bilirim ishimi" (wave your head as much as you like; I know what I'm doing). They kill millions of people around the world to rob their resources, but blandish slogans of freedom, civilized values--democracy, human rights and other BS. This is their mode of action. If they care for justice, let them come and face us on the field, instead of the poor Azerbaijani soldier who does not know what he is fighting for and who will end up as the loser in all cases.
Many forces are involved in granting recognition to Nagorno-Karapagh (NK) as an independent state. Nonetheless, one important point is totally ignored in the editorial. I returned from Yerevan two weeks ago, where I discussed the important point referred to. My two articles in "Chorrort Inknishkhanutyun" (fourth sovereign state), issues 157-159, June-July, 2010, I stressed our equivocal approach to the NK conundrum by separating it from our MAIN ISSUE--our demand for justice for Genocide recognition by Turkey (inheritor of the Ottoman Empire) and reparations.
It is not too late. The Republic of Armenia and the Armenian Diaspora should join forces in presenting our case to the international community,
community, governments and the UN.
Also of utmost importance are the steps to be taken for the re-population of the liberated territories, including NK and Armenia proper. In my article I dwelt upon the establishment of a "National Investment Trust Fund" which would spur the relocation of over a million Armenians who have left NK and Armenia in search of work. These people will return only if a well-organized repatriation is in place, and with ample sources.
Since we are continuously hammered by talk that NK is the main issue (Himnahartz), the the impression is left that Armenians are ONLY concerned with the outcome of the NK conflict. It's time to wake up and tie the issues together and then proceed, lest the politicians mentioned in your editorial think/imagine that we will not react appropriately.
Sorry you find it so. Others who have read it and know of the situation there, and in the Middle East, did not find it incomprehensible. Maybe we are on two different planets.
PS - What's the opposite of winning friends and influencing people? ...being ignored. Haven't we seen enough of that? But, why should there be only vile misinformation or silence about Armenians in Turkey today?
Why do Armenians think that Turkey or the US Congress deserve the final word about Armenia and the Armenians? Shouldn't the first Christian nation on earth be scripting her own identity and future and broadcasting it wherever she sees fit?
To Joyce, When, as you say, Torkom supposedly said the Jews were the only people capable of following the commandments, was that before or after he was spit on?
In all due respect to your points...I beg to differ with your line of thinking.
Although the core of the problems in Isreal are between Jews and Palistinians...the real story goes way beyond this.
Two months prior to 9/11, I was having dinner with a friend here in NYC who was a VIP at the United Nations. This very subject of Israel and the Palestinians came up when I asked her what the pulse on the situation was via the U.N. She said, "If the Western world thinks that this problem is only about those two groups of people, they are mistaken. The true threat toward us is the 'whole Arab' world". We all know what happened shortly thereafter and has not ended there.
The Christian world is not threatening the Jews. Quite the contrary. The support of the Christian world, that I have mentioned, is a very powerful force for the Jews. It is the tsunami, which is building as support for the Palestian's by the Arab world, most particularly the Moslem Arabs.
As for the beginning of this conflict...I have been attending Torah classes for 4 years. It is one of many biblical classes I have seriously participated in over the last 15 years, with the intent of learning from various teachers and scholars about the contents of the bible. Thus far, my experience in those classes has shown me that the conviction of the Jews about their place in Israel has 'everything' to do with what has been written in the Torah.
Whether the Torah or the Bible or the Koran is or is not documented history...a great many people live and die by it. That, to me is what makes it a key factor in this entire complex puzzle. Being too academic about the situation has nothing to do with the reality.
If you believe that the Jews where not God's chosen people and it is racism...you might check with some high-ranking Christian leaders to ask their opinion on the subject. Without question we are all God's children, but at the time of this designation, as I was told by His Beatitude Archbishop Torkom Manoogian, Armenian Patriache of Jerusalem, the Jews were the only group of God's people that were suitable enough to accept God's Commandments.
I was in Istanbul for the first time this past April.
I felt at home and alienated at the same time. It is an odd, but expected feeling.
I noted that half of the people I saw in the streets looked somewhat Armenian. It made me wonder how many others are there like Nureddin Simon. How many Turks have Armenian bloodlines?
Mr.(?) Laleh,
Your comment is so pethatic that it does not even deserve a response, but I will respond just to educate you. Obviously your government has succeeded to brainwash you with lies. The "tons of physical evidence" you are talking about, are actually Armenian mass graves. But don't take my word for it; just do a DNA check. If Armenians massacred Turks, why didn't they stay? If they had, half of Turkey would be populated by Armenians today. Furthermore, the Young Turks first drafted all young Armenian men (ages 16 to 60), a total of 300,000 men. They assigned these men what was called the "amala capu" (labor camps) and made them dig their own graves and buried them alive. Then they confiscated all weapons including kitchen knives from Armenians and drove the elderly, women and children to the Syrian desert to perish. So if all the young men were drafted and killed and the government confiscated all the weapons, how did the Armenians massacre the Turks?
Let me come over and murder some of your family; take away your property and blockade whatever is left of your house, and deny that it all ever happened. Let me see how open-minded you would be then. AND, of course, you should also reach out and make every effort to forget, forgive and not ask for the return of your house, property, and never mind your dead family--it was all in the past.
Do I understand that the Armenian religious community of Istanbul is divided over a difficult ecclesiastical matter leading one faction to invite secular government intervention from Turkish authorities? Yes, this seems strange, but is it actually blatant interference on the part of the Turkish government and a violation of Armenian rights? Or is it merely routine ecclesiastical politics which often feels like mayhem? Surely, as the author suggests, an ecclesiastical authority (or two) must also be consulted and the Armenian church must be better prepared to manage its own ecclesiastical affairs internally. But should the church not approach this through open debate in the spirit of Christian harmony rather than insinuating an international incident?
At least, she said "Maybe you are right" and didn't start kicking and screaming, like many Armenians would imagine based on their demonised stereotypes of Turks. There are tons of evidence (both physical and academic) of massacres that Armenians committed against Muslims in the course and aftermath of WWI, but not a single Armenian would even consider the possibility of that being true and say "Maybe the massacres were indeed mutual."
Perhaps the message behind this editorial is that Armenians want to learn how to win friends and influence people. If little success is to be found on Turkish streets or in the halls of Turkish or American governments, perhaps more success in this area might be found on the air waves or in cyberspace. But as very real and undeniable as the pain, anger and calls for repatriation are, how useful could these things be in addressing the matter at hand? Should we not be open to suggestions?
I am afraid you have parsed my words incorrectly, and unfortunately, with the intent of misrepresenting my position. All I say to you, sir, is that if you insist on generalizing an entire culture by a handful of pithy, hurtful, debasing comments then you are contributing to the perpetuation of hatred in this world --pure and simple. I wonder what you think about Turks in general? Do you see them subhuman as a whole? Do you feel that they ought to be sent back to the Altai Moutains, or better yet, be totally eradicated? Because if you feel this way (and I suspect you do deep down in your wounded heart) then I wonder if you think the Germans ever deserve redemption for what they did?
As for being a propagandist, I can assure to you I am not. Nowhere in my comments to you (or to others) did I imply anything other than asking for civility and respect for people that are not your own. If you can detail for me the logical sequence of arguments that link this position with being a "cheap" propagandist then I will shut up and back down and yield to you, sir.
And since you are prying for my position, genocide did happen as far as I am concered. A nation, this nation, must step out of its denial and come to terms with what happened. Japan is another example in this regard as far as their misdeeds during their occupation of Manchuria is concerned. I believe the time is right for this to happen across the board and the events of 1915 top the list of matters to address.
So come to think of it, if I am a "cheap propagandist", as you so assiduosly stated then I will have to say that "yes" I am one, but I work for global love and reconciliation and not for any nation or state.
Get with it, man. It's a pure simple fact: hate begets hate.
To Umurhan, Umr or Han or whatever your name is. You are nothing but a cheap propagandist working for imperial Turkey. You can run but you can not hide. If you are hurt by these words, how would you feel if someone killed all your family? Or, worst, killed half your nation? That's what your ancestors did to the Armenians. So stop your cheap propaganda.
I rest my case. I take back what I said about intellectuals. Obviously we can not have a dialogue with intellectuals either (Mr. or Ms. Umurham is proof of that). I was just stating the fact that the majority of the Turks were illiterate and he or she started making racist remarks.
What would he/she do if somone killed all of his/her family? Or, worse, wiped out half of the Turkish population? That's what happened to my grandparents and great uncles, and my only aunt was burned alive in a church. She was only 4-years-old. Your ancestors raped and killed my people and you have the indecency to call me racist? What would you call the people who murdered a whole nation? Humanitarians?
You may not care to reconcile but then what do you say to those in South Africa? Reconciliation had to occur not only between whites and blacks but also between all of the myriad tribes and sub-groups who also consider one another as the "other". So whatever it may be - unless you want to live in a world walled-out by hatred and misery, it is high time we reconcile or else the same sort of things like genocides and massacres will continue to happen.
We do care and there are lots of us out there trying to turn the tide. We are spreading the info in every way we can.
Do we want reconciliation or do we want a world full of walls and hatred? There is no longer any choice here and it is time we realize this as a single unified human race with many colors and fragrances.
Please do not generalize - it is hurtful and offensive.
I take issue with this statement of yours, Mr John Keusseyan,
"In order to have a dialogue with anybody, they have to have that mental/intellectual capacity."
To suggest by implication that Turks who grow up in Turkey lack the intellectual capacity to participate in self-reflective and critical dialogue is incredibly offensive and, I am sorry to say, racist. With an attitude like that of an angry child, you can never expect to make progress. If you are so willing to cast away an entire society with such simplistic generalizations then you should realize that you are participating in creating exactly the type of poisonous atmosphere that leads to groups killing groups.
Shame on you. And shame on you to say that the majority of the Turkish electorate are illiterate. This is a lie and hurtful.
The problems in Turkey are wide and deep and quite profound. These are being addressed one-by-one. Unless you believe in democracy-by-the-sword type of cultural "rehabilitation" then you and we must take on a patient strategy of education. The "Deep Mountain" approach is exactly the sort of thing that ought to be done.
How did the Armenian cause come to be downgraded to only genocide acknowledgment? Armenians after WW 1 and for a long time after asked for much more, as difficult as that has been to obtain.
Now all we want is a lousy acknowledgment of genocide? We Armenians are cheap dates.
Winning Turkish hearts and minds? I used to be that naïve. Anti-Armenian propaganda starts at a very young age in Turkey and even though there are a few Turks who dissent and are brave enough to speak up (and eventually end up in exile) the rest see Armenians as insects that must be crushed. Kemalist, Islamist, Gray Wolf of all ages and intellectual levels I have come across all lose it when challenged by an Armenian.
There should be only two main reasons to push Turkey on the Armenian Genocide issue: to avenge and bring peace to the spirits of the victims of the Genocide of Armenians; to put as much international pressure on the criminal Turkish government as possible.
The Turkish government knows that the recognation of the Genocide would tear the fabric of their society apart. I don’t care what Turkey or racist Turks recognize......too late for that.
Turkey commits race extermination against Armenians; occupies Cyprus and now massacres Kurds...Turkey is a murderer state.
My name is Kathrin Pollow. I'm doing research for a German film project. We heard that Armenian women, already in possession of the US-American citizenship, traveled to Cuba in order to marry Armenian immigrants, who went there to evade the immigration quotas of the United States in 1921. Once married, they entered the States as a couple. Have you heard of this? Or would you or your family know somebody who can tell me more?
Would be great to hear from you.
Some Armenians on this blog just don't get it. We see yet another collection of Armenians who are hell bent on reaching out and reforming Turks.
You have nothing to reconcile with Turks. The Armenian state can and did reach out for normalization of relations with Turkey; it is not the job of Armenians to reach out, educate, reform, and play psychiatrists for Turks.
The last time Armenians reached out to the Turks in 1908, they went dancing in the streets of Adana, hugging Turks; only one year later they were all massacred.
Armenians can better spend their time reaching out to Armenians and help develop and reform Armenia.
" Serious reforms were first attempted during Ottoman Turkey's Tanzimat (Reorganization) period of 1839 to 1876. Pushed by Europe, Turkey declared measures, quickly proven ineffective, to safeguard the rights of its subjects, including Armenians.
A Turkish constitution was then declared in 1876 but suspended, along with parliament, just two years later.
Article 61 of the Treaty of Berlin, signed in 1878 by the European powers, Turkey, and Russia, guaranteed the safety of Ottoman Armenians but was dead before the ink dried.
Turkish "reforms" reached new levels in the 1890s with massacres of hundreds of thousands of Armenians.
In 1908 came the "reformist" Young Turk party. Inspired by European ideals, it pledged liberty, equality, and fraternity. "Reform" culminated in the cataclysm of 1915.
Turkey's next European-inspired "reformer" was Kemal Ataturk, who all but finished off the country's remaining Armenian, Greek, and Assyrian Christians, not to mention thousands of Muslim Kurds.
He seized historical western Armenia, which Europe had promised to Armenians, and attacked the just-reborn Armenian Republic while Europe looked on.
Ataturk's "reformist" legacy endures to this day: Genocide denial, the blockade of Armenia, and 80 years of military coups, human rights abuses galore, and even massacres, all tolerated by Europe.
Today comes yet another collection of Turks pledging European-approved "reform." This too will end in disaster if history is any guide. Given Europe's wretched record regarding Armenians, there is little evidence that the EU will ever restrain Turkey against Armenia." - Quoted excerpt from the article Ship of Fools: Turkey and the European Union
I am an Armenian and very proud of it; however, at times I feel ashamed that even a guy who has a PhD can be so uneducated and ignorant. This book is just Armenian propaganda. Azeris have a ver long history. Azeri means a fire in farsi. Go educate yourself for God's sake.
Azeris like us had their kingdoms and were indegenous people of Caucasus until they were taken over by the Seljuk Turks. Azeris were not even muslim. I feel sorry for lots of Armenians since they don't or don't want to lean other peoples' history. Get out of your 100 000 fake show off baptisms and learn to appreciate human culture.
Hurriyet is a bit too pro military and pro Ataturk conservative for my taste.
I prefer Zaman and it is easy to click through their pages. They have some
excellent correspondents with rather liberal views - and you can comment
on the articles as well.
Dear Berge,
Yes we are not the Turks' psychiatrists nor their nannies. But I am an angry and have always been an angry homeless born in somebody else's land Armenian. For obvious reasons and only Armenians can understand me.
There is hardly a day when I have not explained to non-Armenians who Armenians are and what they've been through. Can I stop myself? I do not think so...The same virus, I've passed it to my children and I can very clearly see that this virus will pass to my grandchildren and until when? Until Turkey accepts it...
One would hope Turks would be moral enough to separate the emotional side from the issue. It wasn't their ancestors who were placed in death marches. It wasn't their ancestors who were killed, while the government took out the insurance policies on the Armenians for thesmelves. It wasn't their ancestors who were raped, battered, and killed whether woman, man, or child, just because of their bloodline.
In Turkey, Armenians are villified to such an extent, it implies that "because Armenians are barbaric bloody savages, they deserved to be slaughtered in a genocide" but then they add "--but that never happened."
Do you know what pain the Armenians go through? And all the billions Turks spend on anti-Armenian propaganda? We were mostly an artisan people, with some being able to rise to be doctors, poets, and musicians. Armenians were loyal and cheered for the Young Turks' rise to power, because they thought it would bring reform and greater equality. The Ottoman Empire mutating into the Turkish Republic (by a name change) was paranoid of our ethnic group, because of so many other groups that broke away to form their own countries, so when the stupid Armenians who lived in Russia decided to rebel (a very few), the Turks decided to end the Armenian question and the possibility of Armenians breaking off to form their own nation by killing every last Armenian they could find--even the children, so the kids would never grow up to want revenge (this was their reasoning, but a Christian background means to hate the sin, love the sinner, even if he did wipe out your race. It's terribly difficult, but it's what we believe at the core.)
Can you honestly tell a survivor in the face that his pain was imagined, that his father was never beheaded, that his mother was never stabbed in front of his eyes? By the Diaspora alone you should be able to tell that Armenians were forced out or snuffed out (killed).
And despite how Turks villify Armenians on a constant basis, my parents always taught me that each person is an individual, and to not blame all people for the crimes of the few, or the elite. I do not nor have I ever hated Turks. I only wish that feeling was mutual.
Armenians would never lie about a genocide to their own race. We have more honor than that. All we wish to do is to honor the memories of our fallen, but Turks keep tainting those memories by saying they were all false. Have a heart: accept the genocide happened. It's not like Armenians will ever get reparations. I don't want your blood money. Just by recognizing the Armenian Genocide, and ceasing the biased negative views of Armenians, it would be enough.
One question: why in Sam's name would recognizing a genocide be a disaster for Turkey. And about insulting "Turkishness," what does that even mean? The fact that Turks realize they are just as human as everyone else, and it's ok not to have a spotless record? The Armenian Genocide wasn't the first massacre of Armenians--the Adana massacres came before that, and the Sultan's massacres as well. The Genocide of 1915 was just the most wide-scaled one.
Annie wrote " The Turks have an urge for destruction and you can see this in their treatment of their citizens and in Cyprus too."
This sentence takes me back several decades when I was a teenager. We had a Turkish neighbour who was in the army during the Korean war. One of the few who came back in one piece. According to him there was a very old bombed out building in Seoul . The United Nation decides that they should demolish that huge building for whatever reason. They bring in bulldozers, winches , etc...whatever is needed. However, it takes longer than they thought it would take and the job dragged on and on.....Somebody (with knowledge it seems) says, " Bring in Turks, they know how to demolish" ...and indeed they bring a contingent of Turkish soldiers with nothing but picks and axes. Guess what...the whole building is flattened in 48 hours.
I might not have believed the good things that I hear about Harout if I hadn't met him at a private party in my friend's house a couple of weeks ago.
He was fluent in Armenian (a very encouraging fact and a big plus), fluent in English and French, very handsome, a graduate of AGBU Armen-Quebec school (Montreal), politically very mature, open and a scientific minded intellectual. Harout impressed me so deeply that I proposed him to come to Los Angeles and meet my students and the Armenian community. I am sure he'll impress all ages of Armenians especially the youth and encourage them to go into politics.
Canadian Armenians should be proud to have such a promising young politician in their community.
As over half the countries of Europe, over half the States of America and all reputable historians have fully acknowledged the Armenian Genocide it is time to take the Armenian Genocide as a 'given' and act accordingly.
The movie “Ghandi” is one of my favorite movies and I have watched it several times. In the salt mine scene, in the movie, scores of Indians along a long line, few on a row at a time walked steadily towards the salt mine gate to claim what is rightfully their own but were savagely beaten, row after row. But the procession went on and on and on. The American reporter witnessing the scene sent a dispatch over the phone and dictated what he saw. He concluded his dispatch saying: “Whatever moral ascendency west had, was lost. India is free!”
The Indians were following Ghandi’s philosophy of non-violence but that did not mean being passive. Its aim was to make the pain of colonial occupation of India evident to the mightiest force on earth then on whose realm the
sun never set. More than our being right, I believe, the average and every day working Turk should be aware of our genuine pain. Genocide is a burden on us which we wished we never were burdened with. My father and paternal
uncle grew up without uncles, aunts, grandparents or alike. Their father and their mother were the only orphaned genocide survivors of their immediate and extended families. The pain of my paternal grandparents must have been
so much that they internalized it and avoided the subject altogether and evaded my teenage inquisitiveness.
Genocide pained those who were forcefully uprooted, it pained the survivors, and it pains the descendents of the survivors. To me Genocide is not forcing acceptance of historical reality on the average and everyday working Turk burdened with his or her own problems to make ends meet. Genocide is foremost genuinely conveying the devastating human dimension of its ugly reality. Should we able to succeed in that with the Turkish masses, the historical reality, I believe, will unfold along.
Incidentally I recommend those who have not watched the movie “Ghandi” to watch it. To me it's one of the best
movies ever produced.
This is wishfull thinking. In order to have a dialogue with anybody, they have to have that mental/intellectual capacity. At the beginning of the 20th Century, the Armenians in Turkey (who represented about 15% of the population) had ten times more schools than the Turks, and the Kurds had none. This has not changed much. Still large majority of the Turks are illeterate. Also, majority of the Turks beleive that the Armenians massacred the Turks and not the other way around. Anybody that beleives this, certainly lacks the mental capacity of a normal human being.
We can probably have some kind of dialogue with their intellectuals. Not long ago, I had a conversation with a lady from Istambul who had a degree in Chemistry. She asked me where I learned to speak Turkish and I told her that my father was born in Urfa. She asked me if I had been to Urfa, and I said no. She said Urfa is a beautiful town and that I should go there. I told her, I could not go there because it would bring me bad memories. She said, what kind of bad memories? I told her that all of my father's family were killed and that he was left orphan at the age of ten. She asked, Who killed them?" And I told her that the Turks did it. She said "olamaz", that's impossible. Then I said ok, how do you explain the fact that there were over 3 million Armenians in eastern Turkey before 1915 and now there are no Armenians there. Did they all decide to pack there bags and leave their ancestral home of over 3000 years? She thought for a minute and said "maybe you are right". And this lady had a college education. How do you plan on convincing the mobs?
I do not go in for this sort of touchy-feely stuff, and I do not think it will work anyway.
Consider the fact that Turks in the US have plenty of access to genocide information but do not care, aside from a few intellectuals and historians. So what good will an Armenian TV station beamed into Turkey do? Do you think that a Turkish station beamed into Armenia will make Armenians like Turks?
The Armenian Cause is about reparations and land, not genocide acknowledgment alone. Hence, genocide information by itself is of little importance. The genocide was a goal of Turkey to get rid of Armenians because they were in the way. Turkey has not stopped pursuing this goal. Turks want to destroy Kurds too.
The Turks have an urge for destruction and you can see this in their treatment of their citizens and in Cyprus too.
Do you think that an Armenian TV station beamed into Azerbaijan will make it more likely that Azerbaijan will come to an agreement over Artsakh?
We, "Friends of Hrant Dink", have on numerous occasions hosted Turkish jounalists, authors, academicians and political figures who have come to Harvard and other institutions in Boston. Aside from meeting with many local Turks, we have been able to open a dialog of respect and understanding. Many Turks have not been exposed to their history thus know nothing of the genocide. One prominent Turkish academician and journalist said he knew nothing of the Armenian Genocide until he was forty five years old. He, along with many other Turks, travels with a bodyguard provided by the government, for their acknowledgement of the genocide. Positive articles were written in prominent Turkish newspapers when they were introduced to the few remaining Armenian survivors, to whom they gave great respect. We look forward to having conferences and seminars to promote the legacy of Hrant Dink with those Turks who recognize the genocide. They in turn can reach out and educate those Turks who know nothing of the Armenian Genocide except what their government sponsored history expouses.
It is NOT the job of Armenians to "reform" Turkey, as desirable as that may be. We are not their psychiatrists or their nannies.
We are not related to Turks; and we are not even from the same family. So, what is there to "reconcile"?
For Armenians who cling to every word uttered by a Turk or for an artificial gesture by a Turk to exhibit reform: it is not your job. We have our own country – Armenia - to reform.
In this current digitized world where information knows no limits, the Turkish people are no longer trapped in what their country wants to feed them. Reaching the Turkish public is very easy nowadays through the internet. They are now learning the true history, as well as about what Armenians have felt since 1915, and it is only a matter of time until Turkey will be forced to admit and pay for its past crimes.
I support the strategy of reaching to the Turkish people directly bypassing their denialist government bodies.
Another venue would be the leadership and membership of the diaspora Turkish communities who are in regular contact with their kin in Turkey.
Even though we expect them to be more enlightened and "westernsized" my own experience has not been positive.
As members of Canadian ethnocultural organisations I have had discussions with some Turkish community leaders who while admitting that "yes many armenians were killed but your gangs killed also thousands of Turks."
It may be that the younger diaspora Turks will be more conscious and accepting of the overwhelming historical facts and support recognition and justice for the Armenian genocide.
Shad shnorhagal em ais badmootian hamar. vorkan tsavali yeghads e ais endanikin gianke antsyalin. sagain aisor anonk veratartsads en mer mech vor shad ourakhali iraganoutioun e mezi hamar.
Another way of reaching the Turkish public is by commenting on Turkish newspaper (Hurriyet for example) articles concerning Armenia/Armenians/Turkey published daily on the web. There are many Armenians who diligently read, comment and exchange ideas with Turkish readers who are mainly of the extreme right and deniers of the Genocide.
Thank You my Dear Brother from the States. May God Bless you too! Your comment made me burst into tears...It seems that our 35 years of struggle is giving fruits...
Amazingly the United States Government looks the other way when it comes to the matter of who resides in the holy land. America, since its inception, has a well documented record of how it treats indigenous peoples. But for America to take sides in this matter is blasphemous. No matter because as we Armenians are learning, our rights in Karabagh have nothing to do with western realities. We will get crushed in Jerusalem just as we will lose more of our historic homeland to expediency.
May God bless you, Hamo Moskofian, and the new family you presented to us. Please let the readers of Keghart know a bit more about you. You may have been baptized as Hamazasb, a legendary freedom fighter in his own right. May your revelations not be a curiosity for us but an awarness that we need to become more accepting in our midst not only to the direct bonds of Hrayr Djogkh or Serop Aghbyur who fired our youthful imagination at one time but also to the others who are connecting to their roots. I hope that they will find in us the support they deserve.
It was not by design at all that the counter was "lost". On the contrary, Keghart.com team installed the feature exactly for the reasons that you mention, and we wanted both the authors and the readers to know how many readers have visited a particular item. It had a cumulative character to it. Over time some of the articles were visited by more than 10,000 viewers.
I am not knowledgeable on the technical aspect and the webmaster will look into the matter. From what I understand the system was overloaded on a couple of occasions when many readers clicked at the same time, specially when new items were posted. This caused disruption (not to mention hacking on a few occasions in the past). Some features were removed. I hope the webmaster reinstalls the counter.
One of the features I liked about keghart was displaying of the number of readers of the article along with the number of readers who rated the article and the rating scale. The number of readers is not being displayed anymore. I am not sure if it is by design or is temporary glitch to be corrected. After all, the number of books sold catapults a book on the best seller list. I do not see any reason why the number of readers should not be displayed as well. In the long run, the number may indicate where anx in what type of articles the readers of Keghart gravitate to read. It is good information to have for it's own sake.
I could not agree with Lucine Kasbarian more, as Serzh and Nalbandian are both ready to sell our interests, be it our liberated lands in Artsakh,be it western Armenia, be it our mother language for foreign schools, this President and his team are a bunch of corrupt crooks ready to serve their foreign masters, or else their dirty dossier will be leaked to the world by his masters. They smell from their head.
A mon avie si tous les armeniens pensent a l'avenir de leur pays , l'armenie et le karabakh seront l'un des plus agreables lieux et espaceds a vivre ,les 2 lieux que l'homme desire y aller, comme le juif a fair avec son retour vers l'israel or la palestine. A mon avie si chaque individu donnera 1$ pendant un mois seulement ,et on c'est qu'il existe environ 11 millions armeniens dans ce monde, ce fait 120 000 000$ . Avec cette monnaie on peut progresser l'agriculture et par suite progresser l'economie de karabakh, faire augmenter la population car le peuple a besoins a main d'oeuvre, c'est le cas de chine pour cela les chinois sont devenus en nombre plus qu'un milliard.Et de cette maniere on gagnera conte la poverete et l'emigration:vers l'exterieur .le gouvernement devient un gouvernement vigoureux et sera capables a acheter des avions meme les plus chers, des element militaires.....et au cours des annees on transforme la nation d'une économie largement rurale à une économie principalement industrielle et urbaine.et karabakh sera l'un des nations le plus developpes,modernes,industrialisees et invitera les armeniens de diaspora vers la paradise du monde,cependant le monde sera oblige a le reconnaitre comme etant une partie non separable de l'Armenie car Karabakh sera un pouvoir economique,politique,militaire qu'on ne peut pas l'ignoreR!! LEs moyens sont possibles, les solutions devant nous ,seulemnt il faut revolter,il faut penser et par suite gagner ou arriver a notre but....:
This is an answer to the person, who said, let the president of Armenia travel to Jerusalem and show concern.
Remember both last 2 Armenian presidents who took money from Mormons, Christan Scientologist Church and Jehovah's Witnesses and allowed them to enter Armenia and practice. I hope you will get my drift.
In Principle, I support what you are trying to do. But, why are we re-inventing the wheel? We do have existing organizations whose charter is just what you are trying to do. The ANC comes to mind, who have offices/chapters all over the world. Instead of creating a new organization, which may or may not represent ALL ARMENIANS, why don't we work with these organizations?
In business we call this "distribution system". You may have the best product, but if you don't have a good distribution system, you won't be able to sell your product. So let us use all of our resources that is available to us. Thus the probability of success will be much higher. Let us forget old grudges (and get rid of some old farts who still hold grudges) and work together. And lastly, I would not trust the lawyers because they are in this to make money.
Remember the NY Life settlement? They settled it for peanuts! They are not good in math and they have no clue about PV/FV (present value/future value of money). The $2M in 1915, at 6% is worth over HALF A BILLION DOLLARS today and they settled it for mere $20M. "HYE JOGHOVOURT, KO MEYAG PERGOUTIUNE KO HAVAKAGAN OUJEEN MECHNE" Yeghishe Charents.
We should encourage every Armenian to reach similar positions, irrespective of their political affiliations. Armenian political parties should unite and support Harout and others by all means possible. The final rewards will be enjoyed by all Armenians!
1. The conflict in Palestine is not between Jews and Moslems. It's between Palestinian Arabs and Israelis, the latter mostly from overseas. For your information, many Palestinian Arabs, including leaders and intellectuals, are Christian. To call the conflict "between Jews and Moslems" is like calling the Armenian vs. Azeri conflict one of Christians vs. Moslems. Mischievous or misinformed people like to reduce the Palestine conflict to a religious quarrel.
2. Contrary to your description, the conflict is not a thousand year old. It began in 1917 with the colonian Britain's illegal Balfour Declaration which promised to Jews that Palestine would become their homeland.
3. Using the bible as a book of history serves no constructive purpose in an intellectual debate. And to continue to believe that Jews are the Chosen People of God is racism in reverse. What are Gentiles? Chopped liver?
4. Re the Nazis and the Holocaust, Israelis learned cruelty from the Nazis. They also learned racism.
5. It seems the Israeli government wants to turn the Christian part of Old Jerusalem into a Christian theme park (with some token Christians), which would enrich Christian-hating Israelis with money from naive, misguided or ignorant Christian tourists/pilgrims.
Joyce, I believe the wheels are turning. After all, one only has to look how Archbishop Torkom moved from the diocese back to the Brotherhood. Vehapar has a stong influence in these matters because many of the clergy are from Hayastan. I certainly hope that a replay is inevitable. Aside from that, the fundamental matter is the feeling of isolation in Jerusalem. What can be done about it? President Sargsyan should give up one of his quail expeditions and take a pilgrimage to the venerable sights in Jerusalem. It would do wonders for the community there and also raise the president's prestige. I do remember asking archbishop Torkom jokingly if he was going to ever retire before he went to Jerusalem. He told me he only answers to a higher authority. Love that man!
Best wishes and congratulations to Mr. Chitilian. We need more young people like him--Armenians who have a foot in both communities--Armenian and odar.
I think one needs to take as base the structure of the Armenia-Diaspora ...with traditional & new organizations represented in it & the non-afilliates or independents as consultants - a sort of World Armenian Committee with representatives from every corner & organization ...
Archbishop Torkom Manoogian is 93 years of age. His age is not in his favor to handle such circumstances at the moment nor are the dynamics of the situation.
The Patriarchate of Jerusalem is a separate entity and NOT under the jurisdiction of Etchmiadzin, therefore it would require changes to take place with the laws that govern the Armenian Patriarchate to have a new Patriarch selected under the influence of Etchmiadzin.
Further to this, only members of the Brotherhood of St. James can elect a new Patriarch and the laws are such, that the sitting Patriarch remains in office until he passes away.
I know both Archbishops of whom you speak. They both have their strong points Given my knowledge of their capabilities, I would lean toward Archbishop Aykasian for the following reasons: He has just completed his 2-year tenure as President of the National Council of Churches; He is multi-lingual; He is world traveled and knows many individuals of influence internationally; He is outstandingly gifted at dealing with people; He was born in the region-Turkey; He is smart and without question would know to immediately bring in the necessary business heads around him to handle the Patriarchate, the Israeli Government, the other primary/secondary Christian groups responsible for the Holy Sites as well as coordinate efforts with Etchmiadzin.
This is a very complicated situation to which I do not believe the current Patriarch has much he can do about changing the course of events. He, nor the Patriarchate are a government to be able to negotiate this situation with the Israelis.
I have spent time in Jerusalem, my first visit going back as early as 1966. It is probably the most intriguing and mysterious city I have been to throughout my extensive international travels.
It is very unfortunate that this unending conflict between the Jewish and Moslem people has continued for thousands of years. Part of me wants the struggle to end by letting the Jews have their Israel with the displaced Moslems finding home and futures throughout the Moslem world. Surely, there is enough land available for those countries to welcome their brethren.
The continual argument of whose land it is has no doubt been a major sticking point for thousands of years. If one accepts what the Bible says, then God did in fact promise the 'land of milk and honey' to His chosen. ONLY, there is one point that the Jews of the world may have chosen to overlook...they were promised this land by God, IF they adhered to God's Covenant.
Unfortunately, they have not...so should they, from a religious point of view, be entitled to this land? I say this without malice, as I also believe that many other religious groups have also failed to follow God's Covenant...as we all basically share the same Covenant with God. Or have I missed something?
What concerns me, at the moment, is the fact that the Israelis seem to have lost memory of their many trials and struggles. It wasn't that long ago that they were slaughtered at the hands of the Nazis with everything taken away from them. So the continual irritating point in my mind is 'why are they behaving in such an aggressive manner'?
I firmly believe that Jerusalem is the most important Holy Place for Christians, Jews and Moslems throughout the world, has with it a built in power for the state of Israel. If, Israel begins a campaign to eliminate this critical weapon in their arsenal...they will eventually cause their undoing.
Would the Christians, as an example, of the world be as deeply concerned about Israel if Jerusalem was wiped out of its Holy Sites? For those who strongly believe that Jesus will return in Israel, the fact remains is that Jesus can return anywhere He so wishes to do.
I strongly suggest that the Israeli government take a second look at what they are doing and discontinue on this path that might eventually have many of their supporters look upon them with less favor.
To my knowledge the IOC has video-conferencing capability and it is used for internal purposes. Probably it may be expanded to include interested individuals to keep in touch with them and inform of what progress has been achieved so far and what future plans are. Similarly the public can voice its concerns, make suggestions and remarks. Certainly it helps creating a bond with the public at large.
I would strictly advise to remove that discriminating word "western" from the name, and definitely from further prospects of organization. There is already an organization with the same name and without the word "western", and it is doing nothing, except waiting to capture the authority when it will be available, and continue same self destructive policy against Armenia and Armenians.
I guess something else should be proposed... like "Armenian Ascension"...
While we talk about three political parties, we should note that only one of them is active. The other two do little other than occasionally send emails and publish heavily subsidized newspapers. Oh yeh, they also hold annual picnics. One of them is on life-support system while the other has split up. Under these conditions, and not forgetting the huge mass of disenchanted (from political parties) people and non-partisan Armenians, WAN-Congress should be able to attract a great number of Armenians, if it enunciates its mission in a clear, comprehensive, and inclusive manner. I think WAN-Congress can use professional marketing assistance.
Thanks for the info. It is an interesting initiative, but the hardest thing to do in order to make it "fly" is to have some buy-in from existing diasporan organisations. That is also the most exasperating thing to do. It is the case in all similar situations, Armenian or other; established institutions don't like new initiatives (even if the idea is very good).
I don't know what the game plan is for WAN Congress. Do they want to move slowly, with lots of community outreach to ensure buy-in, or do they want to plough ahead, and by-pass the "establishment"? The latter is appealing if there is a large enough support base to draw on. But if not, then a piecemeal loooong-term approach is necessary, entailing all sorts of compromises. Not easy choices. Of course, hayasdan is going to raise an eyebrow too.... not to mention Turkey! In any case, let me know how things pan out.
All the very best
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After I sent the message I poked around a little bit for further info on WAN. So, here is some further comments.
It would be important for the initiative to have a mission and a vision, that is clearly articulated. That is not clear to me, beyond an abstract idea of representing Western Armenians. I think a clear set of objectives should emerge from the meeting. It helps to ask: what is the problem that the Congress wishes to fix?
2010 is not 1919. Historical points of reference might actually deter from its vision instead of augment it. I suggest to have a vision that is inspirational and future looking.
Similarly, no need to use divisive language such as corrupt leaders of Armenia. They are corrupt, all know it. No need to "cheapen" your mission by taking jabs here and there, at least in writing. People get inspired by forward looking "can do" ideas.
The issue of "representing" the diaspora, which seems to be at the heart of this initiative, is a bit of a red herring. Who represents whom? This can never be solved, short of a vote. Is a vote in the diaspora possible? I think not. Let's assume there is a vote; are you going to prevent hayasdantsis in LA from voting because they are not western armenians? I think representation issue can be solved by having a good idea, and having a number of people -- especially quality people -- coalesce around it. And being modest about it -- not claiming to represent "Western Armenians" but representing members of the organisation who come from... (fill in as appropriate...)
Preparing a legal case. This is dangerous because you could lose. I am not aware anything in international law that would favour Armenians at this stage. (Ara Babyan's stuff is pure myth!) The Genocide issue is all about politics, and the struggle should be about politics too.
I don't understand the Moscow connection.... (well, I do, from the money perspective, but how many western Armenians are there in Moscow?).
In terms of publicising the initiative, and hence generating support, you need professional communication strategy, a series of public events, charasmatic individuals -- men AND women -- and the whole 9 yards of "selling" ideas. This should not be an afterthought. Perhaps, from this perspective, you should even consider a different name. Western Armenian National Congress is too segmental (western), too talk shop (congress), and for those who are in the know, too backward looking (the idea of national congresses is passe).
It is too late at night, so I can't think of any clever alternative, but a name that conveys "future", "initiative", "dyanamism", etc. -- with a good catchy acronym! Communications can seem like a flippant thing for content and issue driven people, but heck, in the 21st century, you gotta listen to your Comms department!
These are some random thoughts to help with the critical feedback that you are asking for.
I can't argue with your faith, but I feel very sorry for your mind and soul. What a twisted message you want to share with us!
"As Armenians, if we want to be blessed by God and prosper, we must at all times stand by" Armenia and not what you are preaching.
After all what you have read in the article and the comments, you are indirectly telling that it's OK for Israel to confiscate Armenian lands. You call yourself a Christian. Where is your sense of Christian Justice?
It's very interesting that Stella S. Martirossian - see her comments - articulates a misconception and an ignorance whose consequences are real and have far reaching consequences as amply reported in July 5, 2010 issue of NY Times in an article titled “Tax-Exempt Funds Aid Settlements in West Bank”. Zealous Christian evangelicals donate to these tax-exempt funds for the very same reason articulated by Stella. For most of its existence, Jerusalem has been under Islamic rule. However, throughout those centuries the sanctity of Jerusalem was honored and its integrity kept intact. Not a single stone in Jerusalem was removed, or transplanted somewhere else. As a matter of fact for past 1300 years, the doorkeeper of the Holy Church Sepulcher, the site of the cru fixation, has been a Moslem family.
However, there is an ugly reality unfolding right before our eyes under the Israeli occupation - the least of which is Orthodox Jews spitting on Christian monks - which is depriving the sanctity and integrity of Jerusalem and many zealous Christians conveniently seem to ignore it. Quoting from the same article: “These people are filled with ideas that this is the Promised Land and their duty is to help the Jews,” said Izdat Said Qadoos of the neighboring Palestinian village. “It is not the Promised Land. It is our land.”
Here we go. What Martirossian writes is the essence of Zionist Christian ideology. I say ideology rather than theology because Christian fundamentalist religious tradition is manipulated by Zionists for political ends. These Zionist Christians ignore or are not aware that there is no room for them in racist Israel. They are not aware that Israelis are using the naive faith of fundamentalist Christians to advance the political and nationalistic aims of Zionism. It's a waste of breath to debate the issue with these drugged sheep: anytime you try to have an intelligent debate with them about this issue, they quote the bible. Circular argument. A dead end. A book of legends, pseudo-history, dubious miracles (autonomous pregnancy, people walking on water, one fish turned into a thousand, a man talking with Satan, the return of a man from the dead, and rise of another not only from the dead, but his flight to the sky--I guess there was less pollution then) is used as the ultimate proof that what they say is a verified historic narrative.
But it becomes irresponsible to ignore these simple-minded fundamentalist Christians because they--in their blind faith--support a racist, theocratic, militaristic, expansionist state which has stolen Palestine and continues to mistreat Palestinians, including Armenians. Note Martirossian says nothing about Palestinians or the plight of Armenians. I am sure she doesn't care--as long as Zionist Israel rules supreme. I am certain that if Christ appeared in Jerusalem today, he would be deported by Israeli goons as a lunatic--if not terrorist--Christian Palestinian.
When Catholicos Karekin visited Archbishop Torkom in February to bestow the Mesrob Mashdots medal on Torkom's 20th anniveresary in Jerusalem, he invited two members of the Brotherhood of St James to attend.. They were Archbishop Khajag Barsamian, Primate of the Eastern Diocese, and Archbishop Vicken Aykazian, the Diocesan Legate.
Both of the above archbishops are best known for their organizational strengths. This could possibly be a testing of the waters. Both Archbishops are 59 years old.
I certainly would not want to see a conflict of parties rear its head again such as what happened between Derderian and Nersoyan.
I get the impression that because Patriarch Torkom has been ailing for some time, the St. James Brotherhood is drifting rudderless. Some of the clergy are taking advantage of the situation, as the editorial, I believe, said, and are ignoring the Patriarch, who is probably too ill too impose his will.
Besides, at this juncture mean-spirited and corrupt clergymen might nurse an exaggerated sense of their power: they could believe they would be courted ($$$$?) during the eventual election "campaign." Perhaps the Vehapar can influence the outcome of the inevitable election by talking to the 15 St. James Brotherhood clergymen who serve in overseas parishes. To get elected, a candidate needs 22 votes. I don't know anything about the 10 clergymen from Armenia who are members of the St. James Brotherhood. One would assume that they could be influenced by the Catholicos in Holy Etchmiadzin during the election process.
As a bible believing Armenian, we must do what the word of God says. "I will bless those who bless you, and curse those who curse you". Genesis 12:3
As Armenians, if we want to be blessed by God and prosper, we must at all times stand by Israel and bless Israel, and pray for the peace of Jerusalem. The land of Israel was chosen and mapped by God, who are we to stand against God? Salvation is of the Jew. Jesus Christ our Lord is a Jew, to love the Jew and Israel is to love our Lord Jesus Christ, to hate Israel and the Jew, is to hate our Lord Jesus Christ.
I think it is great that this organization is adopting the name "Western Armenian". This term should not only refer to the fact that it organizes the (Western) Armenian Diaspora, but should also refer to the territory of Western Armenia itself which the WAN-C should actively claim as a way for Turkey to repair for the damages done to the Armenian nation.
A way to achieve this should be to gain support from non-Armenians as well, just like Zionism back in the days. However, contrarily to Zionism, we already have a dormant document (Sevres Treaty) that constitutes a legal basis for our claims.
All should be done is with the support and even participation of all traditional and experienced Diaspora organizations such as the ARF... If there is no support, then there is no point for WAN-C to exist because its aims are relatively similar to our traditional organizations.
Tsolin- I am truly disturbed to hear of your experiences. I have volunteered with Habitat, and now Fuller, for six of the last seven years. I am presently sitting in the Moscow airport waiting for my connecting flight to Yerevan. This will be the sixth team that I have led. My experiences have been very fruitful and gratifying. There are other U.S. based team leaders who have shared my experiences. It might be the fact that the Armenian Fuller affiliate is beholden to a U.S. based organization who audits their books. Each team member also fills out an evaluation at the conclusion of the trip. If you ever recover from your experience, please, please try siging up for a Fuller team. -Leo
Vrej, It's hard to believe that to be so since Torkom has had such close ties with Etchmiadzin. Can it be that there's a revolt against the archbishop? How times have changed! There was a time when Torkom was in the running for the top job. But then again, nothing surprises me anymore. I wonder whether this thick headedness is not just isolated to Jerusalem. Are there any westerners in the Brotherhood? Are there any non Russian Armenians in Vagharshapat?
The bottom line is the feeling of isolation in Jerusalem. Do those that still live there feel that they've been left to their own devices? It's just how the Armenians of Iraq must have felt when nobody would stand up for them. Knowing that Jerusalem has no moral support is akin to rubbing salt into the wound.
Dear Darwin, thank you for your suggestion. I have been told by a Jerusalem friend (so it's hearsay) that when Vehapar visited Jerusalem a few months ago, to help end the acrimony within the St. James Brotherhood, he was told by the members of the Brotherhood not to interfere in the affairs of the autonomous entity. A disapointed Vehapar took the first plane out.
Shavarsh, let the concern for Jerusalem and anywhere else our people have a presence, come from the highest authority. We don't need a visit from "Hillary" as a broker. Torkom came back to Jerusalem with the full blessing of Catholicos Vasken - bless his soul - so it's about time our Russian Armenian compatriots accept their responsibility - not just fund raising events - for all Armenians. We want leadership? Then let it come from our spiritual home. The diaspora has been waiting too long for a signal from Armenia.
Pope John Paul touched my heart along with the rest of the world by his association and pilgrimages to visit his people. Are Armenians less capable?
When Catholicos Vasken visited New York to inspire us over Karabagh, Armenians came by the bus loads. I never felt prouder.
Let Catholicos Karekin do the same. No clergy or anyone else can pilfer even one more inch of sacred land away in Jerusalem. Until that day comes, I will continue to pine for my people.
Without being critical of the ailing Patriarch Torkom Manoogian, I pray his successor makes his own accession a time of renewal, resurrection, and re-dedication for the St. James Brotherhood. Reading the editorial, I get the distinct impression that a long-overdue house-cleaning is in order. The word "garkazourk" comes to mind. Toss out the corrupt and immoral elements. In plain English: "Good riddance to bad rubbish." While an anti-corruption drive would not, by itself, resolve all the challenges of Armenian Jerusalem, it would be a great and inspiring start.
It makes lots of sense what you are proposing. I might add that the Minister of the Diaspora should engage herself in such matters rather than wasting her time organizing seminars in Yerevan. Those meetings serve only and only one purpose: expanding the circles of friends and what not for PR purposes.
Many of the conferences and seminars that the Ministry is either sponsoring or participating in can competently be organized by NGOs. "Thankfully" there is no scarcity of them either in Armenia or the Diaspora. They keep on mushrooming by the day. One wonders who is financing them in Armenia where poverty is rampant, and thus cannot be supported locally.
Let me give you an example: The open air hall of Cinema Moscow (Kino Maskva) in Yerevan, an extremely popular edifice with residents, which had fallen into "seldom" use (whether or not out of any intentions, I frankly do not know), and which sits on, probably, THE MOST PRICEY lot in Armenia, was lately omitted, by the government, from the index of protected monuments, bypassing all legal procedures. The official explanation was ‘so that the holding company can give it as a “gift of no compensation” to the holy see for the purpose of building a church’ (obviously after demolishing the existing building).
It was also announced that the site was chosen by The Donor (whose identity is carefully being kept secret). An additional explanation, much repeated, is that in pre-Soviet times a church used to stand nearby (with no mention of the mosque next to it).
Many think that the alleged building of a church is just a pretext and soon facts like the lot’s disorientation, a shortage of funds for the other new church some 250 meters away, or something of the sort will pop up and the property will end up a business place (for the benefit of the “donor”).
Some have actually voiced it over the TV. The cabinet took its decision despite a report by the ministry of culture to the contrary; and government insists upon it, ignoring the professional views of most specialist and signatures of some 70 000 Yerevaners, petitioning The Catholicos, the President, and just about anyone, to spare the hall; and even the vote of the Public Forum (a nonbinding yet highly prestigious, elected, social body) against demolishing.
Some very high ranking officials of the church publicly called the (mostly young) activists “enemies of God” whereas all they say is ‘please build churches where there is a shortage (most of Armenia’s settlements) not in Yerevan’s CBD, where there are 5 (Surb Grigor Lousavoritch, Catoghike, Zoravor, Kond and Surb Sarkis) in a radius of less than 1200 Meters.’ It sounds very much like excommunication except that excommunicating 70 000 is not all that easy. Yet a property on Tumanyan and Abovyan streets is worth a try.
Let the president of Armenia visit the sacred Armenian sites in Jerusalem and show his concerns and the importance of its protection. He does travel all over the world and should stop being disengaged with his people. Let him visit San Lazarro and anywhere else there is an Armenian presence. By the same token, the Catholicos isn't chained to the compound in Etchmiadzin.
I, for one, have been waiting for leadership to come from Hayastan.
"English and French often replace the local dialect in conversation, especially among the urban youth, and one organization has launched a campaign to preserve Arabic in Lebanon."
Dear Ms. Konyalian: The Turks suffered no particular "trauma" from committing genocide. Are we supposed to feel sorry for them? Give us all a break from such nonsense, please.
Put Jerusalem down as another example of collateral damage as an offshoot of the discord that has been fabricated by the diaspora. Somebody above wrote, "We must stand united and we must make ourselves heard over and over again." The Armenian diaspora can't even agree to disagree! Our religion and society work under the cover of a myriad of umbrellas. "No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine." John 15:4 When will Armenians learn that lesson? Who stands to profit from our discord? Certainly not us.
George Friedman is a soldier of the Empire. In the guise of balanced analysis, Friedman is doing the dirty work of good old US Imperialism. Since the Azeris have oil. are friends of Israel, and Turkey is a NATO ally, there's no way pen-for-hire Friedman would tell the truth. Talking of Caucasus Cauldron, it's being fueled by petroleum-rich Sultan Aliev and US-backed Georgia--the latter oppressor of Armenian and other minorities in Georgia. This side of the ocean, a truth-telling reporter Octavia Nasr was jist fired by CNN, just like other Western reporters who hace dared report the truth.
Thank you for your article concerning Armenians of Jerusalem. The conflict within the clergy is control of the Brotherhood of the seat of St James. Money and Sex has been the issue during Yeghish's reign and it is still the same.
Torkom should have shaved some of the clergy, but he did nothing and some clergy are taking advantage of the situation.
You need the Diaspora Armenians' pressure on the Pariarchate to include lay civilians with experiance, education and and no personal interest. The fact that there is a Bank account in USA for the Armenian Patriachate's use with the condition that AGBU has placed that a civilian accountant will see that the money is spent correctly , and not fro the personal pockets of some clergy.
In the past, a cvilian Kaghakasti Armenian was always a member of the Synod. The seat of the local Armenian was neglated by Yeghishe and Tokom also did not want any civilian to be part of the Synod.
There has to be a much bigger than life approach to this never ending conflict which is always, systematically won by untrustworthy Israel. They have the U.S. What do we have? Europe?... We wish.
What is it with us the Armenian People? We have been suppressed by every bloody country you can name. USA pressuring for the stinky ratifications, Turkey threatening again and again after 95 years, Azeris wanting to grab Artsakh and declaring war with us, and worst of them all Israel not sharing the holocaust and genocide with us, and now kicking Armenians out of Jerusalem. We cannot go on like this and we must put an end to all this injustice - enough is enough for Armenia and Armenians. We either succeed or vanish forever.
We have survived this much and I think we can survive forever but we have to fight back against all odds. Kurds are doing it and their numbers are similar to ours - I say an eye for an eye and a sword for a sword. That’s the only way to be. There is no justice in this world, countries are all too busy for their own geopolitical interests and revenues, and who cares about us.
We must stand united and we must make ourselves heard over and over again.
This article is biased and contains deliberate misrepresentations which can disinform a reader, not knowledgable with the history of the region. Theoretically it is not neutral, as it is inspired from neo-realist approach which favors a status quo stand. This means that Nagorno Karabakh is part of Azerbaijan (in Western Azerbaijan). Any solution must be applied within the former soviet-era administrative borders, which corresponds to Azerbaijan`s ìnternationally recognized borders. Problem is solved according to the internal self-determination, with new distribution of powers between the centre (Baku) and the region (NKR).
Ay Minas jan Moskvayum 1 100 000 hay e aprum , bayc hayeri grats lragirn u girqn vacharelu 3 qgraiusi metr teg chi tglis ghgam dashnakcakan trrn Erevan Plaza hskayakah eazmahark xanutum, chbayats es dimeci Ambogj spyurqin: Pordzir inqd el hay gtnes u imac tas: Spyurqn petq e iren Hay pahi, vor Erevanum bun deats tshnaminrtn u nranc pnakaleznern chvochncha]nen hayutyann u jhud Lenini kchatats Hayastann: Jpta u gorts el ara:
Chepechyani hushn hianali grvats usaneli e amen mekin i husheri mardkanc u patmutyunneri chisht gnahatmamb i shah ekogin: Misht urax u hajog or ev grogin, ev hratarakogin ev kardacogin !
Thank you for your comments about the state of the St. James Brotherhood. As a former Jerusalemite, I have noted another challenge to the Brotherhood: due to the difficult post-1967 years (the repressive Israeli Occupation decades) Brotherhood numbers have declined. As a result, the clergy devotes its time wholly to the guardianship, protection, and management (in addition to participating in church services) of Church properties.
There was a time, long ago, when St. James Brotherhood members did research and published books about our Church history, national history, illuminated manuscripts, and Armenology. Some even wrote poetry. Now the almost-defunct St. James Press used to publish the SION (quarterly) in those halcyon days.
Whether church leaders are submissive and compliant to corruption, the answer is a BIG YES..YES..and again YES....Not only they are compliant they are also practising corruption and thievery.
I know a few wealthy individuals who have donated extremely big amounts to Etchmiadzin for specific purposes. Nothing has happened and the money has just vanished and no accounting is given. The church nowadays , instead of taking care of the poor, the needy, the sick, is trying to enlrage its real estate holdings....for what....Why build new churches in Yerevan when the country needs schools, hospitals? Why built a 15 million Church complex in Los Angeles when that money could be used for Armenian orphans?
Mr. Aghjayan's article does nothing more than validate Ms. Kasbarian's suspicions. I was not present at ALMA. Yet having read both articles I can't help but wonder what are the answers to her questions. Why such an empty, immature and accusatory rebuttal to an honest, well-argued analysis by Ms. Kasbarian?
She has introduced many valid points that deserve answering. The abiding question she poses is: Who is really representing the Armenian diaspora and what is his/her agenda?
It seems that with the exception of a few, Armenians are willing to give up so much for so little in return. Do Armenians truly feel that Turkey can be their partner when Turkey is becoming richer, stronger, more arrogant and obnoxious? Are the Armenians so deprived of attention that they are falling for the poisonous caress?
Your work is monumental and helps generations to connect. I read the story to my 17 year old grandson, Samuel Bedir Titizian--a Bedirian x Titizian progeny--who upon noticing the double connection between Apelian/Bedirian family with the Titizian family in his ancestry (Kerop and Anna), he exclaimed, "That's very interesting and cool"!
a) Documents: Please e-mail or send me a copy of your documents so that I can show it to Mr. Vartkes Yeghiayan - a well known lawyer who is specialized in dealing with this kind of documents relating to Armenian estates in the Ottoman Empire.
c) Here are the Tenkerians whose names and addresses are in our Chork-Marzban mailing list:
Anahid Tenkerian
5334 Loma Linda Avenue, #1
Los Angeles, CA 90027
Manoug Tenkerian
7040 Haskell Avenue, #202
Van Nuys, CA 91406
Mihran Tenkerian
6614 Jamieson Avenue
Reseda, CA 91335
There are many braches of Majarians from Armenia to Lebanon and US. I'll do my best to find more information by asking another Sarkis Majarian of Glendale, California. He is in printing business and a reporter; his sister's name is Araxi, brother Kevork.
Dr. Hagop Majarian was a dentist in Beirut; his son lives in Beirut.
Majarian Dikran moved to Armenia in 1947 with his family. His wife Yester was my grandmother's sister. They all passed away. Majarian Dikran's son Kevork moved to US, he too passed away 20 years ago. His sons Dikran and Hagop and daughter Yester live in Los Angeles and I see them often.
Now, I have to ask them about your branch and hope I will be helpful.
On this website I keep reading about GROSS corruption of Armenian government officials and of the general population. If such is the case, and since the Armenian Apostolic Church plays a major role in Armenian life, what are clergy, especially primary church leaders, saying and doing about it? Is the Church daringly prophetic against corruption ... or is it submissive and compliant?
Deeds and any other documents that relate to ownership and identity from the time of the Genocide are extremely important to preserve.
The IOC (International Organizing Committee) of the proposed Western Armenian National Congress has at its disposal a legal team that collects the type of information that you have provided. A database is being prepared for future legal actions when the time and circumstances permit.
I would strongly suggest that you get in touch with them, provided the deed is authentic.
My grandfather Hagop Tenkerian was born in Dort-yol. For sure there had to be a relation with Manouk Tenkerian.
Tenkerians are rare but tough. My recollection from what my grandmother used to say is that after they relocated
in Iskendaroon, my grandfather used to go back to his land and home at night .......always came back.
We also have a deed in his name locating his land, house and orange trees. Please we need to preserve this piece of document as it is deteriorating. Can you help? Thank you for this rich research.
I have been to some 100 countries and seen what poverty can do to a society--no matter the religion, ethnicity or history.
Poverty can drive people to lying, cheating, stealing, prostitution, crime, and even to murder.
Your broad-brush condemnation of the citizens of Armenia is cruel, infantile and unrealistic.
I see you emailed your poison-pen letter from Georgia. I hope you are enjoying living in that treacherous state which, according to international surveys, is far more corrupt than your homeland.
I always wondered why the destruction of the Buddha figures in Afghanistan elicited a brisk response spearheaded by the USA. The answer came a couple of weeks ago when Afghanistan was reported to have incredible wealth of minerals (especially lithium).
I assure you that if Nakhichevan had anything similar, the "industrial wing" of NATO would have sent a "liberation" force.
"émolition de monuments utilisés comme réservoirs de matériaux, recherche d'objets précieux et fouilles illégales."
Pratique très commune dans un pays tourmanté, la France a connu les même souci pendant la révolution.
Espéront qu'une solution durable soit trouvé, car l'identité d'un peuple est profondément liée à son passé donc a son patrimoine.
Au dela de la perte d'identité qu'engendre la destruction du patrimoine, se déssine des générations de gens perdus sans racine qui est la seconde vague a attendre en cas "d'oublie" volontaire ou pas de la concervation..
There are some dramatic concentrations of forces in southern caucasus in preparation to strike Iran. Obviously they have come from Georgia and passed all the way to Azerbaijan. In analysis of recent events of the latest attack on Armenian land, I wonder what the armenian army is doing or planning to do?
...Nowadays it is all about correct timing, timing which can come once every 50 years or even 100 years. In fact our neighbours who are big giants are going to pass through a big storm and all we have to do is steer the wind in our direction to profit ourselves.
I sincerely hope that our army will eventually plan a massive attack and gain land in the aftermath of a storm cloud because this policy of defensive attrition does not work and in the end we will have to face a far bigger challenge.
I hope to hear some comments, especially from the military.
I have never met and I do not even know who you are. For ALL Ex-Soviet nationals any foreigner is a good cow to milk. I am indeed sorry to hear what you endured and appreciate the anguish. It is the same with Russians and Ukranians and they would simply do anything to save a penny or even kill you for a few more pennies.
But think the other way round, living in a country that has not seen plenty, and I mean by plenty not just dollars and a few cars but plenty in the sense of financial and economic security. You were unfortunate to meet nasty people but as much as there are nasty people there are good people as well. The way around this stupidity is to work as foreign Armenian conglomerates and not to run into trouble yourself, because as I said you are a good bait and they just used you.
Do not despair as our race has an Armenian honest face and a soviet corrupt face which still needs a lot of time to change.
Over the course of 10 years, I volunteered my summers to work with a building organization (not Fuller) in rural Armenia. Diasporans worked closely alongside paid natives who, in turn, took advantage of our brotherly love. They stole anything that was not nailed down, including our building tools and belongings (we brought very little that was flaunt-worthy). Many lied with great finesse.
These episodes were among the most disturbing of my life. After many failed attempts on my part to 'lead by example,' I have concluded that Armenia needs the kind of rehabilitation that a penal system professional (and not I) can provide. My days there are done. I refuse to reward bad behavior and become sick in the process. I have watched the system in Armenia even those corrupt reformers who have tried to change it from within.
I only want to say that I am proud to get my Armenian citizenship. I received my Armenian passport in the past month, June, in Yerevan. I am Armenian, despite being born in Sao Paulo, Brasil.
I assume that you are not speaking for all Keghart readers. You then, should not be offended by my comments. I welcome all others, who are offended by my comments, to become "part of the solution".
Forget it, this country isn't moving forward. I've lived here for over a year and EVERYONE lies and steals money. That is all they think about. A contract to Armenians means nothing, I worked and worked and they did not pay me, come to find out a lot of people are in the same boat as me. They get their asses worked and not get paid.
I don't care for this country nor these people anymore since they don't care for this country themselves nor their people.
One life to live and it isn't worth fighting for the most part a scumbag nation that thinks only about stealing money.
The so called "Amateur Expert" is the one who sits home halfway accross the world and roots for Armenia in everyway and makes a donation of 100 a year to Nagorno Karabagh. The real expert is the one who moves here and finds out the dirty reality.
I really don't think that I have more of a right than those who have not done what I have in Armenia to speak out and voice their opinions. As long as factual statements are being made and they are not inaccurate for the sake of causing harm to our nation, then everyone should and in fact does have the right to be heard.
I encourage everyone, even those who have never steppped foot on Armenian soil, but are in tune with what is going on in Armenia, to scream at the top of their lungs if need be, to denounce what is going on in Armenia and demand that it be stopped and those behind it, be it SS, RK and LTP be tossed in prison now.
The reality is that Armenia is not just the property of natives that live there, but it represents the identity of every Armenian in the Diaspora too. For this reason, I think everyone and I mean everyone, especially those who know but keep quite, have an obligation to stand up and be heard. Those who try to prevent this are doing a disservice to themselves and our nation.
If you want to help people like me and respect what we have been doing, then stand behind us and collectively let us be heard.
BTW, reading this editorial for the 3rd time, I feel that it really is not the opinion of the writer(s), but just a document that was written to see what people are thinking. I say this as many things just don't add up. If this is the case, then I really feel that the writer of this editorial needs to apologize to us all, as this topic is so absurd and a waste of our valuable time that we could be using on better things. On the other hand, there really could be people out there who are so misguided (possibly the writer(s) of this editorial) that this is a very serious issue that need to be addressed if we are going to be successful in building our nation on a stable foundation.
I would ask that the author of this editorial chime in and do some explaining and refute what has been said if they don't want to discredit themselves further.
Also, on the topic of refuting and setting the record straight, I invite you to visit The Tuth Must Be Told read and then if you agree, sign the petition that is posted there.
Sireli Leo Manuelian and fellow ungers: many of us (who read Keghart and comment here) are critical of the ROA government and its policies travel to Armenia regularly and work or volunteer there, to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem. We take offense that some may simply assume that anyone who speaks out in the Diaspora must be a fat cat who sits in judgment while not doing anything. Did it not occur to you that we who go to Armenia might see the rampant corruption up close and feel even more obligated to blow the whistle?
Ara Manougian, this editorial does not pertain to you or the likes of you. I read with fascination and much appreciation of your move to Armenia over 10 years ago. I read about the Shahan Natalie Foundation and your bio in the internet. You have earned the right to be “the most outspoken critics of the present and past Armenian governments”. You have lived by the spirit and the challenge of the editorial. After all, you care so much about Armenia that you did pack and moved. This editorial is directed to the easy armchair critics of the ROA from the comfort of their surroundings “8000” miles away.
Without exposing, talking and debating these issues and than rectifying them don't ever expect Armenia to go forward with any genuine positive results for the masses. We have accumulated a debt-mountain and rising. You can bet your last dollar that a big chunk of that debt has been pocketed by ministers, as they don't know any better.
Justice must be seen to prevail in the eyes of the public. We are nowhere near that; sadly we have become a banana republic. I go further and say that these criminal lot will give most of our liberated lands to the Azeris in the very near future, in order to look good in the eyes of US, and EU so that they can close their eyes to the fundamental human rights violations taking place now in Armenia. This will be treachery and they must be put on trial.
Backing these lot means to back all these criminal activities and give them more appetite for more of the same.I have pointed the rest of the issues in my previous comments.
If you are going to write an editorial that you want people to take seriously, then be less critical and more correct.
I agree that criticism that does not correspond with reality would be inappropriate, although the criticism that I’ve been hearing from the Diaspora for the most part echoes that of the native population.
Let me first start by stating that I am probably one of the most outspoken critics of the present and past Armenian governments today. I was not like this before moving to Armenia and at that time had such a positive outlook on life and the future that waited Armenia. I did just as you suggest in your editorial an Armenian who moves to Armenia should do. At that time I believed that good or bad, it’s ours and we have to support and protect it.
What I came to realize after living in Armenia and Artsakh for a couple of years is that supporting something that is wrong is not helpful, but hurtful. I didn’t learn this just from my observations, but more so from the countless natives who told me to tell my fellow Diaspora Armenians to stop helping Armenia as it is not helping them but making some very powerful people who are suppressing them more powerful and more dangerous. I even have video of one such message that if you like to hear it for yourself I can send it to you.
Our blindly supporting the criminal Armenian governments (starting with LTP), who I can say without a doubt in my mind are the worst criminals the Armenian nation has had to deal with since independence, was a really bad move on our part. I can say that they are not only thieves, but also cold blooded murderers who will not stop what they have been doing for decades to increase their power and influence until we cut them off and make it clear to them they have been cut off. Anyone who supports them also supports everything they do.
If you want a dose of some well documented Armenian reality, backed up by facts, figures and NOT opinion, you can visit Policy Forum Armenia and download report after report that documents what is really going on in Armenia today and was written by experts.
May I also add that when I moved to Armenia, I was not a human rights activist, nor did that kind of work interest me. I became one after I realized that Armenia had a shortage of such needed interventions. I've been providing this service for the last 10+ years in hopes that I could help to level things out a bit and give the native population hope that all is not lost. And it would be safe to say that my being outspoken and pro-active in setting things straight in the way you suggest we should not, has had a positive effect on peoples lives and influenced change in laws and policy in Armenia.
I have to tell you that after reading this editorial a couple of times and know what I know firsthand about Armenia and the issues that your editorial is trying to address, it sounds to me like this editorial was written by one of those amateur experts you think we need to be saved from.
Ara Manoogian is a human rights activist representing the Shahan Natalie Family Foundation in Artsakh and Armenia, as well as a member of the Washington-based Policy Forum Armenia (PFA)
Much like the rest of the readers, I also have read criticism of the government of Armenia. I have read them almost exclusively at our home, mostly while sitting comfortably on a couch or laying there, I have read them during the four seasons of the year when the air conditioning or the heat in our house have been on to provide me with the comfort that I now have grown to consider my God given right.
Throughout these readings, my car has been in our garage at my disposition to use it at a moment’s notice. Oh, yeah, the refrigerator has been full to capacity and I am always remindful that I should not head there to break the monotony of my reading and be tempted to gulp soda, ice cream or maybe a beer. But I have always wondered what would I have done if I were in Armenia and unable to have ends meet and provide for my family the necessary sustenance and shelter. I bet I would have let the devil take me to bed, let alone Turkey.
I am not against criticizing the Armenian government. However our purse should be in equal measure to our mouths. The late Senator Robert Byrd, the long-standing chairman of the Appropriation Committee said “The basic power, which is probably more fundamental than any other power in the Constitution, is the power of the purse. That power of the purse belongs to the people, and that is where it is vested.” Without vesting our purse in the people of Armenia, our words directed at their elected officials will remain hollow and inconsequential and so will the aspirations of the citizens of Armenia of fair and just governance will remain inconsequential to its elected officials.
Does the author(s) of this editorial have a name? Before I make a comment, I want to know who wrote this editorial and what facts and/or statistics they used to draw their conclusions.
Thank you for raising such an interesting and important topic. For most Armenians in the diaspora, we have lived with a very romantic notion of Armenia. It is the land (in my case) of our grandparents and is the country that our righteous and long suffering people have nurtured for over 3000 years. This perception was developed further by our frustration over the genocide and one of its major effects .... the creation of the diaspora. Armenia in our hearts was the land of the successors to Tigran, Mesrob Massdots and Khrimian Hairig.
There was no room in our dream state for problems like corruption or discord. In our perception, all Armenians got along and our incredible initiative was enough to overcome all problems.
Somewhere along the way, we forgot that 70+ years of Soviet control has altered the work ethic and value system of our people. Survival in a centralized system was critical. To do that , new "skills" were acquired.
When we "bash" Armenia, we forget the big picture that it will take a generation for new methods to be firmly in place. The church, a vital element in Armenian life fro over 1700 years was minimalized by the Soviets. Its resurgence will bring our traditional values back in the mainstream.
Our job in the diaspora is to help; not control. It's a long term project that needs our assistance. We have a chance to see the Armenia in our diaspora dream, but it will require us helping....even when we may not agree.
Your participation will provide the incentive for one more family to remain in Armenia. Maybe their children will help bring about the change that we all know the country needs. Criticizing, or criticizing those who criticize, does nothing but satisfy the petty psychological needs of armchair thinkers and wannabe diplomats. If you believe that your health doesn't permit, then send your children, or grandchildren. Next to providing them with life, it will be one of their greatest experiences you can give to them.
The Eurasia Foundation is searching for someone who will play saboteur (oops, I meant facilitator) in the mockery they call Turkish-Armenian "reconciliation." It's no secret that projects such as what Eurasia has in mind is part of a grand plan that will be in full swing by the time the 100th anniversary of the Armenian Genocide rolls around.
Turkish and Armenian artists, musicians, photographers, architects, actors and others (have already been) and will continue to be invited to participate in very high-profile events that prey on their egos and vanities : to showcase their talents with the world while joining hands with each other to "forgive and forget," celebrate "friendship," and take part in "Joint" events, panels, concerts, lectures, exhibits and the like -- in Turkey, Armenia and the Diaspora.
From 2001-2004, David Phillips, a senior advisor with the US State Dept. tried to sell us TARC (he was its chairman). He failed to persuade the Armenian community to jump on his bandwagon. But that hasn't stopped him or the US State Dept. This past February, Phillips went to Armenia to celebrate the release of the Armenian-language version of his book, "Unsilencing the Past: Track II Diplomacy and Turkish-Armenian Reconciliation." (It was first published in English in 2005 by Berghahn Books.)
If TARC is dead, then why is Phillips peddling his book and ideas to various organizations and individuals in Armenia in 2010? So long as our Armenian community organizations and political parties do business with the corrupt Sargsyan regime, with the scheming US Embassy in Armenia, and go on such junkets to Turkey, they have blood on their hands.
TARC is reborn and we are in for no garden party, much less some progressive movement ushering in democracy.
Since you are quoting American heavyweights, allow me to introduce you to a Canadian and international literary heavyweight--Prof. Northrop Frye of the University of Toronto. Not only was he a prominent Canadian literary figure, he was also internationally recognized as a master and original literary interpreter of the Bible, poets John Milton and William Blake. Although he was an authority on world literature, Frye rarely commented on the new-born Canadian literature. Frye said that he would never apply the same high standards he used to judge world literature to evaluating the literature of Canada. The author of the classic "Fearful Symmetry", said if he were to judge the nascent Canadian literature according to international standards, it would be a "huge debunking project, leaving Canadian literature a poor naked alouette plucked of every feather of decency and dignity."
We all know that the Serge Sargssian regime is corrupt. But considering the dangers Armenia is facing, is it constructive to publicly tear apart Sargssian and his gang? As you probably know, the previous administrations were corrupt, too. They were criticized, just as Sargssian is being criticized now. Did the criticism achieve anything? I doubt it. Not criticizing SS and his gang at this time doesn't necessarily mean we are being complacent.
I totall agree with you Mihran. If the people will consider the president as the supreme commander and put all their trust in him and he is corrupt, then who should change this 'dictatorship' if not the people?!
We should be able to use the power of revolution to correct a situation that most of the population is against it. That will be total democracy that doesn't even exist in USA.
Also what you are describing Mihran is the exact situation of USA - "close my eyes to all these sins and say everything is ok just because they are the government of the day". That's how they treat the Commander-in-Chief, no matter whose puppet he is. They forget how he became a president on false promises and 'paid' campagns.
Actually all governments of the world "are a bunch of corrupt crooks hiding behind patriotic slogans", so why do you think Armenia should be different?
There is a saying attributed to Stephen Decatur: "My country: right or wrong," which is meant to denote loyalty to the last.
This saying was later modified by Carl Schurtz into: "My country: right or wrong. If right, to be kept right. If wrong, to be set right."
The latter is what I hope any good person anywhere, Armenian or not, would say if and when his/her leaders did things that were not in the best interest of the nation.
In a democratic country, that is called "healthy dissent." In despotic regimes, it is called "treason."
1-Criticism and Unity -- It was Healthy Criticism and Unity of all classes of Diaspora Armenians (including Amateurs ) which Caused to freeze the "ominous protocols" or at least changed the tone and the policy of surrender of our officials in Yerevan.
2- Without exception every Armenian has the right to express his or her opinion
3- Remember in Avarair the "Zealous" in Sardarabad the "Khents" and in Artsakh the "Amateur Peasants" said the last word.
4- Sir, If our President Mr. Sargsyan and his administration stop corruption and oligarchy, and start selflessly and courageously to defend Armenia and Artsakh people's full rights, then be assured that all groups of Armenian people will support and admire him.
I totally agree with you. The least these countries can do is to protect and defend people with similar faith who have suffered the genocide from people with other religions.
Right on the money, Annie.
I hadn't thought about it, but 'reconciliation' is a misleading lie.
To be reconciled one has to have been a friend.
Turkey has never been our friend--since the Seljuk and Ottoman marauders ravaged Armenia and held us as ra'ya (sheep) all those centuries (see 'Cringing Armenians in a recent Keghart.com). In 1915 they slaughtered the ra'ya.
What reconciliation?
First and foremost SS should put his house in order, stop all the criminal activities within his government, and then people will help him -- not before.
As far as helping Armenia I do by supporting poor people. That is the only way it gets in the hands of the needy. This lot can't be trusted; it will sell everything and anything in order to stay in power.
Look, I saw the job posting by Eurasia Partnership Foundation (EPF) on this page for someone to do Turkish Armenian dialogue and reconciliation. I did not know that we and Turks were once good friends and are now should be reconciled. Who chose the word reconciliation because I never heard it before Western people started babbling and writing that word all over the place. I do not want to be reconciled with Turks. They are not my friends and they are not my ex-husband so why I need to be reconciled to them? Reconciliation is the stupidest word I ever heard and most Armenians are fooled by it but I am not.
This EPF and others want a person to bring Turks and Armenians together and it has to do with money not peace. Armenia is in the way because western oil and gas companies want to dig pipelines through our Armenia and also through Armenian land in Turkey because they are not satisfied with Georgia and also they want to drag Armenia away from Russia and now I ask when Armenians will wake up and see that they are being used by people who do not care about Armenian rights but just want money and for Armenians to bow down to Turkey and give up any claims forever. I do see concerts given by Armenian musicians in Turkey and I think they and artists who do that are naive. Reconcilation is stupid word and please don't use it ever again. It makes me sick to my stomach.
Dear Mihran, the editorial didn't ask that we close our eyes to the misdeeds of the government of Armenia. Neither did it say that we should swallow what's going on in Armenia. The editorial, I believe, said that rather than tossing futile stones at the government of Sarkissian, we should assist Armenia--the country. When commenting on Armenia, we should differentiate between the current government with the state of Armenia.
I agree with some parts of all of the comments you are making but it is essential for those of us of the Diaspora to offer criticisms even though it may be distressing to the powers to be. It is essential that the leadership shake off many of the inequities and defects of the communist system as it moves toward capitalism but there must be caution that we not duplicate or emulate the evils of capitalism as we are seeing it in the U.S. right now.. There is a middle road which is best described as Democratic Capitalism,as espoused by Ray Carey, in which the worker gets a significant piece of the apple as they toil in the system. Carey puts it well when he states that Karl Marx and John Stuart Mill had it right in their diagnosis of the wrongs of the society in the 19th century but Karl Marx's solution was egregiously wrong whereas John Stuart had it right with his gradualism.
Editor's Note:
This appears to be an advertisement and Keghart.com's policy is not to post material that has purily commercial intent. However, in this particular case Badrig has aptly chosen a title which expresses the intent of the material that follows and has relevance with the subject under discussion.
“… they will rebel only when they become conscious." George Orwell, "1984."
Eurasia Partnership Foundation (EPF), a recognized leader in the field of program implementation and grants management in the South Caucasus, is looking for an international facilitator with vast experience in dialogue projects to work in the upcoming Armenian-Turkish large-scale dialogue project, pending funding. The facilitator will commit a substantial part of his or her time over the next two years (from 25% to 100%) to traveling between Armenia and Turkey, working with Armenian and Turkish partners, moving forward future joint projects, as well as facilitating joint Armenian-Turkish events, so that they are goal-oriented, effective, and fruitful.
The recruitment is done on behalf of a consortium comprising Eurasia Partnership Foundation (EPF), International Center for Human Development (ICHD), Yerevan Press Club (YPC), and Union of Manufacturers and Businessmen of Armenia (UMBA). These four organizations have recently joined their forces to pursue coordinated action and project implementation in the context of Armenian-Turkish relations.
APPLICATION PROCEDURES: To apply, please send cover letter and resume with “International Facilitator – Armenia” in the subject line.
Azerbaijan is a made-up, phony country, and the book proves it. I have read it. Azerbaijan was always merely the region in Iran to the south of present day Azerbaijan. It was a geographical designation. The name was given to the present "Azerbaijan" for political reasons. What is an "Azeri"? Ask yourself that. There is no such thing. Armenia and Artsakh have to announce over and over and over again that Azerbaijan is simply a made-up country with no legitimacy. If they do this enough, and refer to the facts in Galichian's book, the media and governments will come to say the same thing - that the so-called historical rights of Azerbaijan are a fiction, a lie. People will start to look upon Azerbaijan as illegitimate and with minimal or even no rights. This may even lead to the break up of "Azerbaijan." Look, Turkey does the same thing with Armenia. Turkey claims there was never an Armenia on what is now "Turkish" territory. It claims that hardly any Armenians ever lived there. That is also what Azerbaijan claims about Karabagh. They lie, while we Armenians act like sheep. We Armenian Americans lack the ability to go for the jugular. We are too nice. Nice guys finish last. And Armenia and Karabagh just plain stink at public relations and "propaganda." Oh, do they stink. Azerbaijan needs to be totally delegitimized in the eyes of the world. Its history must be shown to be phony. It must be thought of as fictitous. Will the Armenian American community, ANCA, and AAA please pick up Galichian's book and read the damn thing and act on it? Will the dumbells in the Armenian government consult Galichian on the best way to conduct a campaign to totally and forever delegitimize Azerbaijan?
Thanks for your article. Good people are worth remembering. Armenians are always grateful for such people who would understand and value our positions among them.
I do not remember if I have heard the name of the champion you mention here but probably many Beiruti people recognize him and thank him.
Thanks Hamo. I will share this article on my wall.
NO, I can't agree when you say don't bash Armenia, the fact of the matter is that all Armenian governments deserve severe bashing from the people for the mess they have put the nation in, from social justice, oligarchs charter, treacherous protocols which are still on the table not withdrawn, selling of our mother language to foreign language schools, Foreign policy which is so weak and pussy footing issues where by all our rights are being tread upon, and rampant corruption at all levels from top to bottom.
NO, I can't close my eyes to all these sins and say everything is ok just because they are the government of the day, they need to be responsible and accountable which is not the case, or else we might say to all despots its ok continue your theft.
NO, don't expect people to swallow what is going on in Armenia, its totally out of order, they just pay lip service to the Diaspora in reality there is nothing tangible, they want to control the Diaspora its their real aim.
They are a bunch of corrupt crooks hiding behind patriotic slogans.
We do not need to wait until and when Turkey recognises the Genocide. We can start now to claim what belonged to us in courts similar to that Greek Istanbul family which was able through the EU supreme court to get back their Istanbul confiscated/stolen properties. Imagine that Turkey is sued with hundreds of thousands court cases...
It has to be clear to the world that these countries should be classified as NON RELIGIOUS countries.
They preach that they are christians But they DO NOT LIVE A CHRISTIAN LIFE.
It's good to read and consider Razmik's thoughts on this topic. I certainly found arguments (some difficult) that I (and others) need to mull over.
The one point that I was looking for is what the future is for diasporan work in the various countries they are living in. Here in the UK, we are lobbying as much as we can to keep the topic in front of politicians, academics and NGOs (including the wide dissemination of Geoffrey Robertson QC's independent legal opinion). Does this not have a value in our armoury that needs to be commented on?
My own view is that we the Armenians now have less than five years left to achieve genocide recognition and the consequnces that follow. If Turkey resists until the 100th anniversary of 1915, what could possibly happen to take this forward after that? The final denial will have been achieved at this milestone (or deadline in my view).
So all forms of advancing our case have to be adopted and with more energy as time passes.
Of course, criticism only for the sake of criticism is not a good approach especially in Diaspora - homeland relations; on the other hand, Diaspora should point to some shortcomings in Armenia regarding the activities of government. There should be a clear line between current government and Armenia as a homeland. Diaspora can and should sometimes criticize the Armenian government which does not mean to criticize the Armenian statehood. If Diaspora will merge these two things and see no difference between current Armenian government and Armenia as a homeland or statehood, I don't think it's a right option.
Although I admired your editorial (as I admire nearly all of them) for its balanced reasoning, its positive action-mindedness, its opposition to “let’s bash Armenia” and its lighting a candle tendency; and though I am one of those who take personal affront from the bashings, yet there are quite a few points where I have to disagree, namely:
Blockades by Turkey and Azerbaijan are, in fact, one of the smallest woes of Armenia, blown out of proportion by successive governments to cover their shortcomings.
To criticize Serzh Sargsyan and Co. is not pointless. Even if they choose to ignore the views of Armenians (of Diaspora, as well of Armenia), they at least should be aware of it. To suffice it to a single (mildly) unfavorable adjective and then giving in, is actually joining the conspiracy of silence -- and advertising for it. After all, what are we saving our precious golden breath for?
If as you say, people in Armenia are bright, educated, sophisticated, and hard-working citizens who are immensely patriotic, then how do you expect them to confuse a criticism of the government with bashing the nation or the state as a whole, and how can we also hurt the morale of the citizens of Armenia and Artsakh when we would be saying what many (if not most) of them are saying.
You offer a statistics on corruption as a condolence, saying we are worse off than only most of the world!
It is sad to see Keghart stating that criticism is a luxury reserved for certain countries. That is swallowing the time-tested bait used by all despots (and mini-despots). In fact we “not well offs” need a 24/7/53.
Yes, these are hard times and the Diaspora should keep on helping the motherland, morally as well as economically (including financially), but it should not be done through people who will pocket all privileges for themselves.
By the way, I did move to Armenia. I am out of the country on business. I hope I will have a reentry permit.
Finally, I wish the epilogue were somewhat more tolerant towards noise makers – it would be more Keghart style.
In Lebanon or any other country, the schools have a curriculum that all follow and in all schools the local language is obligatory. So all students have to learn the country's language, history, literature and more. Even if they are private community schools, like Armenian or French.
The names you mentioned were Universities and not Schools. I agree that Armenia should not put a restriction on Universities, however schools, even foreign language ones should have Armenian as their 1st language.
In USA and Canada (supposed to be bi-lingual) schools only stress on a single language - English. Armenia should not follow the same path, we need to be like Lebanon, where people learn multiple languages and have high-level of general knowledge at an early age. So we need to introduce foreign language schools, but make Armenian mandatory in all schools as a 1st language.
The Dikranagerdtsis sing this song in their dialect. The words are to be found in Dikran Mgount's book "Amidayi Artsakankner." Parsegh Ganachian fashioned it into a concert choral piece, as well.
I know someone who is not in good health and admires Komitas. I am wondering if you know anything about Komitas' final words before he died. Did he ever mention anything regarding "head to toe" or "toe to head" as if in some pain or as a reference to something else? This individual who admires him is making similar references and also keeps mentioning Komitas' name. I look forward to your response.
The singer in the embedded video is ZOHRAB YARALIAN and he is a Kessabtsi! I apologize to Zohrab and the readers for my error. I thank Esther Tognozzi for bringing my error to my attention.
I am not sure what is the state of education in Lebanon nowadays. I left Lebanon in 1976. Up to that time, if a Lebanese wanted to study a profession such as medicine, pharmacy, dentistry, engineering then he or she had to attend one of the foreign institutions of higher learning, either the American University of Beirut in English or St. Joseph University in French. In order to be able to study int hese universities, the student naturally had to have studied English or French. Historically up to that point Lebanon was famed for its foreign schools and institutions of higher learning. However, during those decades, I cannot say that the Lebanese Arabic culture was in its dark ages or the survival of the Arabic language in Lebanon was at stake.
I am inclined not to believe that the present law permitting foreign language schools in Armenia signifies the doom of our language. I am also not sure if these foreign schools will not offer Armenian as a language in their schools if there is demand for it. Parents will not send their children to foreign schools just for having sent them to foreign schools; nor will parents not send their children to Armenian schools knowing that the quality of education in the Armenian language schools surpasses the other schools. It will boil down to the quality of the education a school provides; it's as simple as that, and that's the way it should be.
The writer, who for many years was a columnist for the Toronto STAR, is an Islamist. He judges international conflicts, issues through Islamic lens. Always the key question for him is: ''Is this good for Islam?" Even though he acknowledges the Genocide of Armenians, I am certain that if Azeris attack Armenia/Arstakh, he would justify Sultan Aliyev's aggression.
Mouradian and Sanamyan stepped into Turkey and met genocide-denier President Gul just a day after another genocide-denier PM Erdogan threatened to deport 100,000 fellow Armenians.
Why haven’t they fully explained themselves yet?
Meanwhile, Mouradian and Sanamyan posted dispatches of their trip, most of which displayed striking similarities to how the ARF interacted with the Ittihadist (Young) Turks (aka Committee of Union and Progress) and Mouradian’s and Sanamyan’s pandering to several denialist figures and hosts and even anti-restorative justice rights advocates.
Have they lost their moral compass?
One does not attain restorative justice by participating in decades of diluted, closed-door events that resemble lectures and protests for improving Turkish democracy and human rights in general and in an open-ended format where nothing is binding at the conclusion of the endeavor. Did the Jewish people attain their restorative justice this way?
One does not attain restorative justice by gratifying a small number of “Armenian-friendly” Turkish scholars, like anti-reparations Taner Akcam and Fatma Gocek and other so-called progressive, flip-flop Turks such as Amberin Zaman, whose numbers across the board have not increased in the past decade and who lecture mostly to Armenians to weaken them and their legitimate cause.
And, one does not attain restorative justice by engaging in “reconciliation” events that foreign governments are sponsoring and/or exploiting to push the detrimental protocols process and “normalization” drive forward. Former Amb. Evans recently spoke in favor of these events at a commemoration program in Michigan, and Amb. Yovanovitch refers to these “unprecedented” events frequently in speeches across Armenia.
If the ADL-Ramgavar or any other Armenian party engaged in any such TARC-like activity, the ARF would have harshly criticized that party day in and day out and rightfully so. But, I guess it is okay that they themselves are steering the “reconciliation” wheel for God knows what benefit besides personal and partisan gain.
Yes, Turkey has “changed.” It has changed for the worst. And, it is changing some of our fellow Armenians who clearly do not think things through, are lackeys of corrupt bureaus and organizations thousands of kilometers away and/or see Hye Tad "promotion" as an opportunity for
career advancement and notoriety.
Krikor, your story was very readable and informative. The picture on the Life Magazine cover was so telling of the immense changes in Lebanon at the expense of open space. I would like to note that Keghart has also posted Prof Ara Sanjian’s report in Armenian about the 1958 tragedy that was published in Haratch magazine in Paris. Prof Ara Sanjian’s report is about a friend who was raised by his mother as an orphaned child because his father was one of the victims of the 1958 fratricide who was killed leaving behind his pregnant wife who would then raise their only son on her own.
However, I could not relate well to the two characters of the story, Sahag and Kaloust. I am sure that they are real characters. However, I think they were not only reminiscing of the bygone days, but they also were analyzing as adults the events that led to the 1958. Both were 9 or 10 years old in mid 1950’s and are my age. I wondered if boys at that age could have possibly been acutely aware of the rivalries of the super powers of the day to reminisce of their impact on their tranquil personal lives in Nor Hadjin or Karantina. In any event, your story took me back to that fateful year, 1958, when the prevailing talks we heard from our parents and relatives were those killings. I wish both of these articles are also presented to the readers in English.
This is something which is bound to be the subject of growing attention by all parties as the time passes and as the geopolitics of the region changes. The best course, of course, is dialogue and peaceful means of dispute settlement. It is a welcome development that our Kurdish friends have begun to openly acknowledge their share in the extermination of Armenian population from their homeland. Perhaps realisation of that fact can serve as a starting point to acknowledge also their share of responsibility for compensation or restitution when it comes to Armenian lands inhabitted by Kurds.
The article is full of unwarranted praise for a demagogue who uses double standards abundantly. I wonder if the writer is aware of the Turkish blockade of Armenia for already 17 years when he quotes Erdogan's reference to the blockade of Gaza.
He claims that Erdogan has somehow indirectly acknowledged that the past Fascist Turkey "did ethnically cleanse its minorities", as if he has repented from their practice. Was it not the same Erdogan who recently threatened to expel Armenian immigrants from Turkey, thus continuing that country's genocidal practices ever since 1915 ?
The writer says a tour through the region has opened his eyes. It seems he should open his eyes wider to see some more unsettling realities in the region.
Wow....here is an Azeri living in Great Britain and willing to go to war ...Yes of course...it seems that he is a great armchair warrior sitting in England. What I do not understand is why they do not read history other than their own fabrications. Is this inherent to Azeris and Turks alike? Turks also read nothing but their own history books manufactured by their leaders.
Javidan efendi..were you in Sumgait ? What happened there? Besides, let me remind you that it was not Armenians who ran away during the war but Azeris. Have you not been told that Azeris ran away when few donkeys loaded with strong projectors were unleashed toward your positions and you thought they were tanks and all of you quit your positions.
How about when an Armenian helicopter poured a white powder over your positions and your soldiers ran away because it was "poisonous gas"...well...it was not gas but bleached flour...you know...they make delicious Armenian bread with them.
There is a Turkish saying , I hope it is close enough to Azeri language
"bos lafla peynir gemisi yurumez"
Turkey will never relinquish Western Armenia, unless another great war happens and world falls into turmaoil.....otherwise forget moving there.
I am speaking as an ex-Turkish citizen. Unless you have lived in Turkey and have been subject to their social, educational thinking you will never learn the deep rooted animosity toward anything that is not Turkish. Who the heck wants to live under their "modernized" rule...certainly not this Armenian....
The rest can only dream...living in Western Armenia like our forefathers is just like the Turkish poet saying " Kubbede kalan hos bir seda imis" meaning - What is left in the dome is a pleasant echo...Those days are gone and we live only with echos of the past....but this does not mean that we should stop pursuing our goal but we should be realistic......Who knows...maybe ...sometime in the future?
We know well how reformers, protesters and dissenters are treated in Armenia -- by the "establishment" -- that is, the government, riot police, oligarchs with long tentacles, and even Diasporans employed by establishment personnel.
I'd like to hear more about dissenters in the Diaspora -- those who belong to traditional political parties, charitable organizations and even churches -- and disagree with the political stands these groups have taken re: the Armenian condition.
What percentage of the dissenters disagree with the Protocols or Turkish-Armenian Reconciliation, but go along with policies set by their "leaders" to be 'good soldiers,' and even publicly defend positions they don't agree with?
How many dissenters are thrown out of their organizations for speaking out against dubious leaders, platforms and policies?
By the same token, how many followers in these groups try to discredit or slander (in public forums, in the press) outside observers who might question what is going on?
This June the Istanbul Armenian patriarchate cancelled its once-a-year visit to their church in Kayseri (intended to mark the feast day of St Gregory's emergence from his pit of imprisonment - one of the most important holy days in the Armenian Church) because, in a completely different part of Turkey, a Catholic priest had been murdered by his driver, and despite the fact that within hours of the crime being committed the perpetrator was known and that it was clearly an "ordinary crime" without any religious implications.
Yes, I'm from Fresno too. My mother and grandparents barely made it out alive from their home of Aintab, Turkey . I appreciate your illuminating us on the politics at hand. Sometimes we lay people are pretty ignorant of these things and wonder what the heck is going on?!
Without analyzing the legal aspects and interpretations of these terms there is one fact that Azeris do not dwell upon. It was only 90 years ago that Karabagh was GIVEN to them by the great Georgian murderer. It is not Azeri territory for them to claim anyway... So all those pundits, who talk about territorial integrity, should consult history...
We often think of the 1895 to 1920 time frame when it comes to the Ottoman Empire. These were the worst of times. That does not mean Armenians had it easy up until then. We focus so much on the Genocide we forget how oppresive life was during the entire Ottoman reign.
Sure, we had Armenians that were useful to the Sultans. These "house slaves" had some skill that was valued by the ruling class. But, for the majority of the people, I imagine life was pretty difficult. It is good for us all to read these third party perspectives.
I have a four CD set of Minority Composers of Ottoman Music that includes Armenians, Greeks, Jews, and Gypsies. In the liner notes, the Ottoman Empire was referred to as "the empire of tolerance." I read that, sat back and simply said "OK..." I showed this to a prominent Armenian Historian, the author of several books, he looked and was actually stunned for a few moments before simply chuckling.
We need such historical testimonies to combat the constant spin.
Thank you for explaining, in very clear English, the politics behind the scenes, and especially pointing to our Armenian dilemma: "And what about the Armenians and their lobby? Aren’t they guilty of their own cynicism for watching the flotilla feud and now thinking that the winds of geopolitics have finally blown their way?"
Unfortunately we don't have any real policy. We are simply driven by anger and emotion.
Dijo el Comandante " héroe " Avo , "la diaspora Tiene muchos Intelectuales , necesitamos mas Soldados ", desde y Y cualquier Iniciativa , El Punto de partida debe Servicios El Espíritu de esta frace .- En El chico del pueblo de la Rca de Armenia ( " no "para Nosotros los de la dispora ) , párr lograr Una Vida en Paz, Desarrollo y tranquilidad, es mas Importante Que El Gobierno de la Rca solucione El conflico de Nagorno- Karabaj de Artsaj , Que Las eternas Conversaciones Por Diferencias y reclamos Venimos Que realizando desde hace Casi pecado Siglo Con lo Turcos.
A timely article to say "enough is enough" to all those who do not have the slightest clue about the importance of language -the mother tongue in your own country.. How far we can go with our "odaramolootyoon"! The ignorance of common people can - may be - forgiven but people who are "trusted" to be in charge of important positions for the people, for the country, for the safety of our values. WHO ARE THEY? Yes, it's time to say : OUT!! Enough is enough!!
Armenians with hardheaded thoughts and suspicions toward Turkey are not welcome on panels. They do not get to have any say. They need to express their opinions but are not invited.
Today, many Diasporans no longer speak Armenian, having assimilated into their mainstream societies. Those who still speak it and/or taught their offspring to speak it made a concerted effort to do so. It did not simply happen by chance. It is no secret that the Western Armenian runs the risk of extinction.
It is with great sadness in America that I've observed newer arrivals from Armenia speak to their offspring exclusively in English. Any host culture's language will be omnipresent in that society and can easily be learned and spoken. Can the same be said of a mother tongue from a foreign land that is shrinking in size by the decade? With the introduction of foreign language schools in Armenia, will the disappearance of Eastern Armenian and the cultural values that accompany a language follow suit? It is ALSO no secret that Western based initiatives operating in/servicing Armenia teach Armenian youth to abandon their so-called backwater culture to follow a Western model that is presented as more sophisticated.
How many more native Armenian graduate students do I have to encounter who, through entrepreneurial programs abroad (such as Soros), returned to Armenia to open restaurant-casinos with back rooms reserved for prostitution and who proudly crow that they've become success stories by embracing Western values? If the powers that be wish to continue weakening and threatening the very existence of Armenia, they could not have found a better way to do it than to introduce foreign language schools.
The map of Kurdistan shown in here, presumably represents the goal and aspirations of PUK. It seems to be too bold and Utopian a dream. First of all, it disregards the historical claim of lands belonging to the Armenians. Secondly, it assumes the generous leniency of three (even four) neighboring countries: Turkey; Iran; Iraq; and to a certain extent, Syria. Nakhichevan seems to be allocated to Armenia, but Karabagh is not shown as an independent state (or part of Armenia).
If Turkey is ever to relinquish its hold on eastern Anatolia, I wonder if it will prefer part of these lands to be ceded to Armenia, rather than made part of a huge Kurdistan... Even Iran might prefer Armenian ownership of parts of these lands, rather than having them relinquished to Kurdistan.
In the absence of clear cut and legally teenable agreements between the Kurds and the Armenians, wishful thinking won't get us anything, except more disappointments and trouble. It is not enough to adopt the attitude of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"... There is need for diplomacy and negotiations with the Turks (and even Iranians) as much as with the Kurds.
From my perspective, even in 1915 and before, the Kurds were not just bidding the goals of the Turks, but were also getting rid of Armenians from lands of mutual ownership. Presently, the Kurds might bring out the issue of the Armenian Genocide just to highlight the barbarity of the Turks, and thus gain international sympathy to their present cause and aspirations.
I am very happy to hear that you also are providing new examples about Islamized or "kurdified" Armenians! I am sure that people would appreciate it if you could send more information about them.
I confirm that it is not easy today to live in double identity in Turkey where massacres can occur anytime...
Regarding Aliye Alt's book there is no English version, but some friends will help to have it in future.
I doubt that Mr. Mikirditsian had the guts to tell his kurdish "friends" that we, Armenians have suffered from kurdish atrocities and vandalism as much as from turkish crimes. If Mr. Mikirditsian is expecting recognition of our genocide from the perpetrator, Turks, we, Armenians all over the world are expecting the same kind of confession and acknowledgment from the kurds for their crimes against us.
While it seems that Mr. Manoyan is flattered by his delegation's reception, awkwardly his main and only thought is business opportunities in Erbil.
This is to remind Mr. Mikirditsian and co. that they and their party do not represent the opinion of Armenians worldwide.
I see that President Obama wants everyone to learn another language, however which one should it be?
The British learn French, the Australians study Japanese, and the Americans prefer Spanish. Yet this leaves Russian, Mandarin Chinese and Arabic, out of the equation.
It is time to move forward and discuss the subject of a common international language, taught worldwide, in all schools and in all nations. As a native English speaker, my vote is for Esperanto.
10 hours 27 min ago
17 hours 15 min ago
As for Armenians vacationing in Turkey, it sucks--there is no doubt about it. But the solution to the problem needs to come from entrepreneurs both in and out of Armenia, plus the Armenian government. Writing editorials or trying to shame people is not the best solution.
17 hours 22 min ago
18 hours 37 min ago
The comments made are perfectly undertstandable, but we are looking at only a small picture of the whole story. Armenians from lebanon and syria also go to turkey and spend even more.
My dear compatriots, we are not going to drive them to bankruptcy nor are we going to get touched by their hospitality, it is matter of CONCEPT! We all understand that the holidays are cheap but as mentoined in the article, there have been cases of assaults and one day there will be a major assault.
Here again lies the failed diplomacy of our politicians, and the issue was raised when one of the commentators could not get a visa. People will be able to travel when diplomatic ties are organised and agreed upon. For example, what is wrong with Montenegro and Croatia, or Lebanon, or southern Cyprus, but these have to be dealt with diplomatically to allow the ease of travel and allow holiday makers to relax in the sun.
I cannot imagine myself putting a penny in any Turkish man's pocket; after all the land that we are vacationing on is our Cilicia or has been confiscated from someone whom we loved or was close to us. Yet again we have not developed our internal tourism and we could benefit from that, but the Armenian oligarchs are busy of course!!!
21 hours 50 min ago
I sympathize with you, and I'm very surprised that you have been refused tourist visas by so many countries. Perhaps you know people in these countries who could vouch for you?
In any case, Turkey is a dangerous place for Armenians, and the fact that they allow tourists in with ease is typical of their contradictory nature. I am half-Armenian, and nothing about my information betrays my Armenian roots, but I would still not go to Turkey; I never have and I never will go to a country that is basically telling me my ancestors did not exist by denying the Genocide that took their lives.
And I have gone without, rather than buy Made in Turkey.
I wish you well and hope you manage a visit to Europe sometime.
22 hours 25 min ago
23 hours 26 min ago
That is not an overall solution, I know, but it is something that can be done easily.
But please realize that there will always be turncoats and traitors among us. This is true in every country.
During the Genocide, there were some Armenians who revealed information that led to many Armenians being murdered.
Public exposure and disgrace must be done.
23 hours 41 min ago
Thank you Hagop for sharing with us and on behalf of your sister, brother and cousin as well, your memorable experience with the late Vehapar on the account of your famous grandfather Daye.
I will admit that I have not visited Daye’s grave in Kessab and did not know of that fitting quote engraved on his tombstone from our famous tenderhearted poet, Taniel Varoujan, who was also one of the many who were apprehended on the night of April 24, 1915 and was tortured to death. Whenever I visit Kessab, I will most definitely pay homage to Daye at his gravesite.
I will attempt to “translate” the one line quote for the benefit of the English speaking readers. I also admit before hand that I will most definitely not be able to render justice in conveying the linguistic eloquence of the quote.
“The Armenian hut bore you; the Armenian sorrow rocked you; and you became big as the sorrow” - Taniel Varoujan
1 day 58 min ago
I can sponsour myself to travel to Paris, Vienna or any European country, but have been refused from all the embassies in Armenia because I am not married and don't have concrete links (family, etc.) in Armenia to return to. After being refused visas from various embassies, I totally feel as a prisoner in Armenia.
I am not homeless, I have no criminal record but because of the attitude of foreign embassies here, I have sadly realized that Turkey is only country that allows easy entry of Armenians, without discrimination.
If I will apply for visa for a UAE holiday, I am sure I will be refused. Meanwhile, citizens of the old CIS countries (Russia, Ukraine, etc.) do not have problem to be granted visas to anywhere in the world. So think about that and then blame the right persons and govermental organizations. And please answer my question, "Why are we prisoners in our country? Why does only Turkey let us travel without any limitations? Whose fault is that Armenians go to Turkey to spend holidays?"
1 day 1 hour ago
Yes, you're right: 100 million dollars is big money for Armenia (though I exaggerated that number, maybe by two). But vacationing is important. A good vacation and rest boost human productivity. In that sense, Armenians benefit no less by going to Turkey. Vacationing is not a luxury but a necessity.
I overreacted because Armenia wastes many millions in needless things that could have been used more effectively. To solve our national issues we should focus on more important things rather than make scapegoats of the middle class.
1 day 3 hours ago
It was Muron-orhnek in Echmiadzin, back in 1996. It was our first time in Echmiadzin, our first time in Armenia. We were four--my brother Sevag, sister Shaghig, cousin Razmik, and I.
The ceremony was over, and the desire to meet the Amenayn Hayotz Vehapar, Karekin the First was high but seemed impossible to achieve. His assistants informed us that Vehapar was too tired to receive visitors that day.
I wrote on a small piece of paper that the grandchildren of Kessabi Dayi would like to meet the Amenayn Hayotz Vehapar (the Kessabtsi Vehapar) and handed it to a bishop at the Veharan reception.
The bishop came back with a smile."Vehapar will receive you now in his personal appartment," he said.
Karekin I received us for more than one hour. It was a very informal, warm meeting at the balcony of his apartment in Veharan.
We were simply overwhelmed by the modesty, humility and sincerity of the highest-ranking Armenian religious personality.
My grandfather, Kessabi Daye, died in 1953. In 1996, 43 years after his death, his name on a small piece of paper, was enough to make the gates of Veharan in Echmiadzin open to receive four young Armenians by Amenayn Hayotz Vehapar.
There is a quote on the tombstone of my grandather. A quote written by Taniel Varoujan:
"Hay Khrjite (hut) kez dznav, Hay vishde kez ororetz, yev ayt vshdi chap yeghar medz."
1 day 5 hours ago
I was really impressed. His father, Jivan M.--not to be confused with his superior--whose son had crashed his car. I agree that he has not served in the army but he was elected to the post by our Ramgavars (the party with wealthy members) from the U.S. mainly, but at the time the winds were blowing quite fast from that "side."
It's a pity that overnight Armenia and the rest of the other 14 republics turned from a dictatorial regime to the present "wild and free-market economy," thanks to aforementioned. Had Armenia and the 14 republics gone through a "transitional period" like Spain, Portugal and Greece--all dictatorial regimes or going through Nordic (Sweden, Finland, etc.) European socialism, Armenia would not be in the current situation.
Alas, it was not to be. We are in the same current now with the other 14 are. But are you the one who will steer Armenia towards the preferred route--the Nordic Euro-socialism? I don´t think so.
My suggestion is first try to put our own house in Diaspora in order rather than badmouth Armenia and the regime there. Think, where did it emanate from and by whom?
Bygones are bygones. If the Diaspora remains in this "Arshagavan" mode, not much can be expected. If it drastically makes changes within its "kharkhul" shaky structures and adopts a mode that suits it best, re-organizing itself through "professional association of colleagues" that I advocate then perhaps we can have the hope that it will become a real ("Li-Irav") fullly-fledged partner with Hairenik. Meanwhile, stay calm and instead of criticizing, meditate: "What can be done?"
1 day 5 hours ago
Unfortunately, the situation is the same with a lot of Armenians in Lebanon.
By the way, Egyptian resorts are cheaper and much better equipped than those in Turkey. Armenia tour operators need to be convinced to change the destinations they are promoting. The distance from Armenia to Egypt is about the same as to Turkish resorts.
We have serious issues with Turkey. Aside from economics, I consider vacationing in Turkey a moral crime. To this day, Orthodox Jews do not buy German- made cars.
1 day 6 hours ago
Why would Turks think we mean business when we demand recognition? Why do so many Armenians reside and work in Turkey? Why do desperation and economic despair in Armenia drive citizens of Armenia to Turkey for work? There are so many other countries to go for employment. If these people don't respect themselves, how about respecting our ancestors--our grandmothers and aunts were raped and slain; they committed suicide so they would not give themselves to Turks, be dishonored. Most people in Armenia are after money, pleasure, greed and selfishness. It should not take a government to tell us what to do; we have to know it. We had almost 100 years to learn what to do, where to go, what to buy, whose economy to support. It is not important how small our contribution is to the Turkish economy. If we all boycott their products, their tourism, and be vocal about it, teach "odars," promote our Cause in the media, then we will make a difference. The editorial is to the point.
1 day 8 hours ago
Eric, you are a short-sighted person who has no concept of diplomacy, politics and patriotism.
The $100 million might not mean much to Turkey, but surely it means a lot for Armenia. If we don't put a stop to it now, in the coming years the $100 million can become $200 million, $300 milliion...
You think that Turkey is more advanced, yet in reality that country is still guided by 18th-century Ottoman laws, and a perfect example of that is Article 301.
I don't like the Armenian government, but it surely is much better than its Turkish counterpart, where they sign international agreements just to tear them apart the next day. They talk of genocide in Palestine when the 1915 blood of Armenians is still wet on their hands. They talk about Israeli attack on a ship which they systematically organized and sent its passengers to be slaughtered...etc. etc. etc.
Know who your enemy is.
1 day 8 hours ago
1 day 12 hours ago
1 day 13 hours ago
Do you think by travelling to so called Turkey Armenians will be educated? If you know better why don't you run for a political position in Armenia?
Why do we have to be negative? Why don't we make suggestions instead of calling each other inproper names?
1 day 14 hours ago
For example:
How much is his dad making that he was able to buy a car for a wonder-kid like him?
How does that happen that the son of the foreign minister runs over an ordinary citizen in the center of the capital city on a car bought by taxpayers money and does not spend even an hour in a police station?
How many months that patriot has spent in the army and, if he has (to which I strongly doubt), in what capacity, before labelling his countrymen "esher"?
Would he dare to call an "esh" to his president who spends taxpayers money in casinos of Europe?
Although in a sense I agree with him. Yes they are "esher", because they tolerate the existence of such non-human like beings like himself.
1 day 14 hours ago
Of course, mostly the party elite, the "cream" of society took advantage of the system, yet "common" people were not ignored either. Many visited the vacation spots mentioned in the article for "pennies".
I wonder how people today tolerate the extremely suffocating heat in Yerevan. Do the students, intellectuals, workers get a break? I don't think so. Can the situation be reversed or at least ameliorated? I am not sure, and I am hesitant to make any proposals because nobody at the official level in Armenia is listening.
1 day 14 hours ago
I am not a Bible (Asdvadzashountch) expert but I know that Armenia is mentioned a few times in the Old Testament. Why the Muslim Turks who believe in the Old Testament deny the existence of Ararat and Armenia?
They, the Turks that deny are the real infidels. Why we, Armenians do not take advantage of what is mentioned in both the Bible and Quran about our lands and people.
Some of the new versions of the Old Testament have eliminated the word Armenia altogether. Turkish propaganda?
I hope I made my point clear.
1 day 15 hours ago
The language of this editorial is understandable. However, there is another side to the coin. Lake Sevan can be a good vacation resort, but Armenia`s newly-rich robber barons, the oligarchs, have built vacation resorts there for rich people, not for the ordinary Armenian citizen. Armenia is not being built for its people, but for the few ``rich`` who will also receive `rich`` visitors from other countries. Unless this tide is reversed by a popular movement, we should not expect any change in the foreseeable future. As for the political parties, they are also part of the rich oligarchs; they don't promote anything without party or pecuniary interests.
The counter-revolution in Armenia by the new elites, in association with propaganda coming from American and other western embassies, coupled by efforts by some Diasporan Armenians put this country on the wrong path.
Who will correct it? How? when? Why correct the situation, since it suits the new capitalist-oligarchic-robber class in Armenia?
1 day 16 hours ago
My pleasure, John. You are no slouch either at pinning him/her down.
1 day 17 hours ago
A stupid and groundless article, cheap and populist. What do 50,000 tourists mean for
The author has extremely wrong understanding of patriotism. You cannot compare vacations in Sevan, Black Sea, Shushy with the ones in
You think Armenians are not being killed in
Armenia's number-one enemy is not Turkey; it is its current government, headed by a president any country would be ashamed to have. A man who has no vision, no moral values, no intellect, is corrupt and who forces its citizens to slavery in Russia. He is selling the country to Russia and keeps demoralizing an entire nation.
1 day 17 hours ago
Turkey, the land of blood and genocide, just the colour of their flag, do not fit with Armenians' interest!!
1 day 19 hours ago
1 day 21 hours ago
Getse Mesrob. You put this guy where he belongs. If you had not responded, I was going to. We should not let the Turks win the propaganda war. We should never let them deceive the world with their fabricated lies. Well done my friend.
1 day 23 hours ago
When on a mission in Armenia in 2006 to videotape five schools being repaired or built, I headed to Jambarak where some of the work was being done. I was provided with a chauffeur-driven car and an architect. On the way to Jambarak, the architect, the driver and I began to chat. The architect was merrily telling us how he had spent his summer holiday in Antalya. I asked him why did he not go to local resorts or to the ones your [Keghart]editorial mentioned. He defended himself by saying that Antalya was cheaper.
Later, when the 20-year-old son of Armenia's deputy foreign minster took me, in his small car, to his uncle´s farm, we somehow got to talking about vacations. I told him that only a week earlier the "architect" had boasted about his vacation in Antalya. This is what he said: "ESH en, nrank wor gnoum en."
Now back to your point of what is happening and the remedies that are required. The Yerevanite is mostly unaware of what he/she is doing by going to Antalya. Two months ago my dentist in Yerevan disclosed to me that their vacation--with her husband and kids--was getting close. To where? I asked. "To Antalya," she said. Her father is an ex "palkovnic" colonel of the Soviet Army. I then asked why not choose those areas/resorts you mentioned. Her answer was, "Well, it is more expensive there..." I could not restrain my anger and told her the above story about the young man who called those who vacation in Turkey as "ESH-er." She could not say anything since I had quoted a third party. I wonder if she took my advice and cancelled the Turkish vacation for another.
It is not easy to change peoples' thinking and habits, especially after the Protocol signing and the talks about rappraochement. Turks are fast at work; their propaganda machine, their tourist agencies are effective.
A church-going lady and I will soon cooperate to attract spiritual tourism to Armenia, alongside with the usual tours.
2 days 3 hours ago
But what about his suggestion to "bring down the bombastic nature of the debate, to look at the opportunities and the challenges in an objective and forward-looking way." The comments posted about this article seem to revel in the same old, self-serving, fear and anger laden bombast, which is really a shame. I dodged the anonymous mud slinging and almost missed the point about the similarity between the treatment of Armenians and Native Americans. I believe that there is some truth in this. But, don't we have laws in the US today that at least try to repatriate Native American cultural artifacts and respect ancient Native American burial grounds?
2 days 8 hours ago
The butcher Talaat Pasha promised to allow a single Armenian to survive the Genocide - as a museum exhibit. Genocidal Turkey is allowing one Armenian church to function - as a museum exhibit. We will reclaim our lands no matter how many diplomatic and intellectual gymnastics you indulge in to deny the undeniable. We will reclaim our lands, reparations and restitution.
2 days 11 hours ago
Mr. American... or should I call you Indolent Turk? After all, I wrote the email you responded to today on ... March 24 for God's sake! You must be one busy guy/gal. Indeed, you are not entitled to an answer: I am merely writing for the benefit of Keghart readers who had to suffer through your absurd letter.
To paraphrase poet Elizabeth Browning, let me count the ways that you are wrong at best and take reckless liberties with the truth at worst.
To prove that there is hostility between Mexican-Americans and Armenian-Americans you cite that Gov. Deukmejian did not approve Justice Cruz Reynaso as candidate to the California Supreme Court. Some proof, some single example "emperical evidence" of your nonsensical allegation.
You say that Mexican-Americans have forgiven-forgotten 500 years of imperialism by Spain and America, presumably. I guess you have not heard that many Mexican-Americans consider their emigration to California, Nevada, Arizona, Texas as slomo "reconquista" of these states by Mexicans.
As Col. Keusseyan wrote, you are not Mexican or Mexican-American. You are a Turk who is not very good at this put-up job. If you were Mexican-American, you wouldn't have denigrated your fellow Mexicans by writing, "Please do not confuse us [Mexican-Americans] with the recent waves of illegal immigrants."
You say that to die for the true faith is a courageous act, but "that does not mean I have to support your community's claims of genocide." I can't follow your reasoning here--if there is such a kernel of logic in it.
"Turkey is not a criminal state," you say.Tell that to Greeks, Armenians, Assyrians, Kurds, and, yes, to Turkish intellectuals.
You say since Turkey is an ally and friend of the US, you wouldn't recognize the Genocide of Armenians. If you were truly Mexican, you would be ashamed to say that. We all realize that states and human beings have many differences. One of those is that human beings have conscience--unlike states which are motivated by self interest, pure and simple.
Yet another proof you are a Turk: You say many of the books of the Gospels were written in Turkey. My friend, there was no Turkey in the first century. Turks, if they existed then, were still marauding in the deserts of Central Asia. They made their first bloody appearance in the Middle East in the 10th century--a full millennium after the Gospels were written. Besides, what does the writing of the Gospels have to do with Armenians? with the Genocide of Armenians?
I got news for you: Homer's Troy is in Turkey. I bet you would call Hector, Paris, Aeneas Turks, too. Maybe Homer was a Turk too, not to mention the famous king of Midas. Maybe Constantine the Great was a Turk, too, since he founded Constantinople, which you call Istanbul.
But the best proof that you are a Turk is the Turkish boilerplate propaganda line which spouts that many people were killed during Turkey's war of independence. So what? It wasn't Armenians who killed them. Turks died because they declared war against the Allies, hoping that Germany would help Turkey further expand it borders. Instead, the crumbline empire lost everything except Asia Minor--the homeland of Greeks and Armenians.
Re the murder of Turkish diplomats by Armenian terrorists. Where do you get the nerve to criticize Armenian terrorists when your country brought the rotten corpse of mass murderer Tala'at--20 years after his assassination in Berlin--to Turkey for a state funeral, with all the trimmings and 21-gun salute. A mass murderer and a true hero of Turkey, a true son of Atilla the Hun, Cengiz Khan, et al. Besides, there are 8 million Armenians. If a hundred or even a thousand Armenians turned to terrorism in desperation, it doesn't mean this insignificant minority is representative of Armenians. Meanwhile official Turkey kills, and harasses millions of Kurds--sorry, Mountian Turks. If only they would come down from those mountians and became Field Turks.
About your advice that Armenians should not bear a grudge... If you were Mexican you would have known that Mexico still hasn't forgiven France for installing Maximilian I as emperor of Mexico. But since you are a Turk, Maximilian and Juarez are strangers to you.
Yes, Armenians are Aryans, like Iranians and most Europeans, including Spaniards. In your dim mind you must think Aryan means Nazis, although Turkey is one of the most racist countries on the globe. The world hasn't forgotten that "neutral" Turkey played footsie with the Nazis... but again, you wouldn't know that.
Re your comment about Armenians living in Arab countries. Armenians are forever grateful to Arabs for the hospitality, the kindness Arabs extended to the survivors of the Genocide of Armenians. Armenian communities in Arab countries have been loyal to Arab countries and have contributed significantly to their new home countries.
You suggest that there was no genocide because Turks being Moslem like Arabs, couldn't have killed Armenians for their religious beliefs. I will try to explain this in as simple words as possible: Turks killed Armenians, Greeks, Assyrians because these nations--by definition--were not Turks. Turks wanted to create a homogeneous country. Kurds being "Mountain Turks" were not touched. The Christianity of Armenians was an additional reason to exterminate them.
Your Fifth reason is a non sequitur. Look up the word in the dictionary.
Your final paragraph is unintentionally hilarious, revealing your Turkish identity yet again. I hope your bosses don't read this letter... they might fire you for incompetence. I like to see you hold on to your "job"
2 days 20 hours ago
I said it before and I say it again. This guy is not Mexican nor he is an American. Just because he says so, it does not make him Mexican- American. A true Mexican-American does not hide behind an assumed name. As long as he/she hides behind an assumed name, none of his comments should be taken seriously. I lived in this country for over forty years and never had problem with Mexicans nor American-Mexicans. Like I said before, this guy works for the Turkish Republic and he/she is a cheap propagandist and he/she is trying to drive a wedge between the two communities. Umurham, Umr, Han or whatever you name is...You can run but you can not hide. But I give you credit for being persistent.
2 days 21 hours ago
I know a few Turkish words, but here goes for your enjoyment.
"Garapagh aliminizenden gette!!!" can be translated as "Karabagh went through our hands." Many knowledgeable Azeris realize this and repeat it.
Next time be prepared not to lose Shahumian back to us...Nakhichevan and then perhaps come close to Kantsag--Genjah as you have transformed the name...and a few other such venues. Lenkoran will be taken by Persian Lenkoranis in addition to other small areas up north, such as Dagestan.
3 days 7 hours ago
John K.
I am Mexican-American, not Turkish.
3 days 7 hours ago
Secondly, Mexican-Americans do not play the victim card. Yes, thank you, we are religiously devout. We fight injustice, but we do not dwell on the last 500 years of subjugation and imperialism. We do not ask for reparations, land or money.
Many Mexican-Americans hold prominent positions in the US, and Mexicans in Mexico, who are wealthy and educated, have no need to migrate to the US. Please do not confuse us with the recent waves of illegal immigration.
Third, your statement "Christian Armenian martyrs of 1915 and support a fellow-suffering race rather than become allies of the criminal state which continues to deny its murder of a nation." Well, Mesrob, I do respect and honor the Christian marytrs who have died throughout the centuries. To die for the true faith is a courageous act, but that does not mean I have to support your community's claims of genocide.
Turkey is not a criminal state. Turkey is an ally and friend of the United States. And if you understand the history of Christianity, you would know that many books of the Gospel were written in Turkey. You should also bear in mind that many people were killed during Turkey's war of independence. What I find appalling is that on my own American soil, Armenian "Christians" commited terrorism by murdering Turkish diplomats at the Turkish embassy in Los Angeles. That is scary. That kind of hatred toward others for past wrongs is diabolical and inexecusable. It is purely un-American. And I am American first and foremost, Mesrob.
Fourth, from observation, it appears that Armenians have a natural ally and long-term historical friendship with Iranians. Both of you consider yourselves "Aryan." Armenians have a significant minority population in Iran. Iranians are predominately Shia Muslims. In Lebanon, a majority Muslim country, there is a large Armenian community. In Istanbul and in southeastern parts of Turkey you can find Armenian-Turkish citizens. Armenians live in Islamic countries. If this was about Christianity vs. Islam, how come Armenians are so close to Muslim Iranians? Your dislike of Turks appears to be based on ethnic hatred more so than on religion.
Fifth, there is an eerie parallel between white folks (supremacists) who never relent on their hatred for Mexican-Americans and Mexicans in general and Armenians who never relent in their digust toward Turkish-Americans and Turkish people.
On a personal note, Mesrob, there is good and bad in every culture. But I happen to have a deep respect for Turkish people. Does it bother you that there are many Mexicans in California who like Turks? Can a Mexican- American only be a friend of an Armenian if he/she supports the Armenian Genocide claims? Will you be friends with a Mexican- American like me who doesn't? Let's find out, shall we?
3 days 23 hours ago
Je leur donne mon appui le plus sincère à tous les intellectuels turcs qui ont valeureusement décidé de faire face au passé dur de ses ancêtres, en reconnaissant publiquement le génocide arménien et en abordant pour une réconciliation définitive entre turcs et arméniens.
3 days 23 hours ago
Azerbaijan is a Turkic fabrication, just as Israel is a Zionist fabrication. Azerbaijan was patched together by Russia, slicing parts of northern Iran, while Israel was pieced together from Arab Palestine by the wealthy Zionist lobby and the colonialist British. No wonder the two undersized Frankensteins get along so nicely: after all, they speak the same language... the language of illigitimacy and phoney history.
5 days 5 hours ago
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:27 PM
Subject: ACMAO Executive members to appear on Hai Horizon and TorontoHye Newspaper
Dear colleagues and friends,
The September issue of TorontoHye Newspaper will also publish the interview with both Doctors.
A quick reminder to purchase your Gala tickets or fill out your sponsorship forms as both TICKETS and TIME are running out! The Gala will take place on Saturday September 11, 2010 at the Liberty Grand. Please see attached poster for more information.
Regards,
ACMAO Executive
5 days 5 hours ago
I would invite readers to visit ACMAO's website to have an idea of their many projects that they have carried so far in Artsakh and Armenia.
This last plan of getting an MRI for Armenia is worthy of support and your donation - even without attending the Gala - I am sure will be appreciated by the organizers.
5 days 8 hours ago
Taterakanin yrax chanaparh bari amen ur kyanq sirog u kyanqin chanach linel cankacog hayoc zavaknerin i hachuyq ev i das:
6 days 20 hours ago
The article is an excellent wake-up call, but I would suggest that Mr. Bouldoukian's comment is even more profound.
There is no need to cite his credentials and accolades in the field. He is well known to those who have been attentive. His short paragraphs pack so much wisdom they need to be expanded on in separate essays.
He is right on that the expansion to empire status by the US post-WWII foreign policy establishment has created, at best, a financially unsustainable situation. Over 200 military bases around the globe (there are not even as many nations in the UN) has been unviable for a while. It could only be kept up by an equally unsustainable demand for the US dollar as an international hard currency which is tightly coupled with the international petroleum and arms trade. Shocks to the system, through global politico-economic meltdown did and will have long term repercussions. In the end, it is perhaps arguable that given a sufficient level of aggregation, everything is a zero-sum game. Gains in one field are couterbalanced by losses in another. No one can win all the time, or as it is better said, you cannot fool all the people all the time, no matter how hard you try.
At worst, this policy has created an unmatched level of animosity towards the US in world. This certainly does not bode well for the future of our planet.
The real tragedy for American citizens is that they are mostly unaware that their country is, for all intents and purposes, a military state. For the simple reason that the largest piece of the pie of the revenues and expenditures of their public funds are allocated to the military, most of the manufacturing capacity is dedicated to military or military-related output, most of the research in any field has some kind of defense connection, and any commercial applications, are fundamentally offshoots of initially defense-backed expenditures, particularly in the aerospace and hi-tech fields, and most people who are still employed in the private sector are likely employed by defense or related industries. This was what Eisenhower was warning against over 60 years ago. In a sense, it is yet another example of lack of economic diversification and increasing risk at a very macro level.
The real challenge for America and the world is to decouple itself (and very quickly) from such reckless reliance on war-mongering as a source of "wealth". That is why Mr. Bouldoukian is right again in his compact second paragraph. After all, if with our cumulative weaponry we can destroy the planet completely and utterly 20 times over, since only once would be more than enough, by any measure and point of view, even for the most aggresive capitalist, that is 19 times too many and a collosal waste of resources.
Paregamoren, Viken L. Attarian
1 week 18 hours ago
Evans-Prichard's analysis of the international crisis that struck the Western economies is worth reviewing and dissecting to find a healthy therapy solution(s) to the world economies. Piling up forces in several countries by states far from their neighbourhood is a kind of neo colonialism; the daily non productive spending on these forces (and the ensuing deaths of humans) looks no more a Keynesian deficiteering concept.
The world today looks like the 30s to 40s of the 20th century which produced the 2nd WW. Unless all parties concerned reconcile their appetites to the size of their stomach, and an equitable justice is introduced, the world is at the door of an intellectual and moral abyss.
1 week 23 hours ago
Let the Turks establish a museum and host a Christian religious observance in the 1,100-year-old Armenian Cathedral of the Holy Cross at Aghtamar. And let the Armenians call it hypocrisy and stay at home in anger and argue amongst themselves about the situation. The winner in this event would not be the Turks. It would be "the green-eyed monster of anger and jealousy." The losers would be the Armenians.
I'm sorry if that sounds cynical, but in my opinion, the Armenians should not miss an opportunity to pay respects and stake a claim at their ancient sacred site. The Hay Aspeth youth group has made a courageous attempt. But now, wouldn't it be useful for these kids if the Armenian Church could turn this into an ecumenical or interfaith event and a history lesson, rather than lose the opportunity to another angry protest or a quibble over lighting candles in historic structures? It's all about setting the tone and establishing the voice of history at Aghtamar - for the kids and for the world. Who better to do that than the Armenians?
1 week 1 day ago
Panarmenian News has it that local authorities in EasternTurkey (Western Armenia) have been instructed to make preparations for opening the Armenia-Turkey border barriers for planned Armenian Pilgrimage on Sept.19, which was originally slated for the 12th, the Latter being their Independence Day, thus avoiding to cross with it.
One wonders if this is going to be just a Show -as many of us thought-or a prelude to then soften up and NOT CLOSE it after the pilgrimage. For this has always been their "Voj" style, as I wrote before, acting very cautiously, step by step, like a cat does when planning to thrust forward...
Unfortunately we did the worst thing ever when we declared to them to establish relations "without any preconditions". Whereas we should have set forth "The preconditions" that of their recognition of the Genocide perpetrated on us..
Bygones are bygones, our RA Government must now think of another strategy, since once borders are opened and that "without any preconditions" they will gear up for "amicable" relations, establish NGOs, Business establishments in RA.
What a shame that RA government did not consult with the Diaspora Armenians and did not act in cohesion with it. But then, what abput Diaspora that so far has not put its own house in order, each political party and/or other unions, etc. all acting seperately. I sent in to the editor-owner of this forum a lengthy article, that describes the ways and means of getting the Diaspora(s) re-organized to come up to a Super structure with Supreme Council.
I Wonder whether the editorial staff would consider to post it here in a precise (brief) manner.
Thanks for reading me anyhow...
1 week 2 days ago
We often tried not to offend Turks and this is where we are now – our children are not allowed to worship in our churches. Boycott is the only answer to the show the Turkish Government is putting on. That is, of course, if we have any shred of respect for what and who we are left. I applaud these kids and bow my head n front of them. They are brave and they are brave. I also applaud the Turkish policeman, based on what I see in this video. He does his despicable job but showing more restrained than any policeman in Armenia would show to his own people. In short, way to go Hay Aspet. More Armenians should do what they did. Let the Turkish government block Armenians from visiting Akhtamar. And let’s see what the world media would say: Armenians are banned for praying in the church, which was opened by the Turkish government as a sign of tolerance to Armenians and Christianity. Yes to Boycott. Bravo Hay Aspet.
1 week 2 days ago
We forget the most important matter that our next generation lit a light inside the dark walls of the church.
We have to stop being negative, please let somebody come up with a proposal. Let the Armenian lawyers' association, the doctors or any other professionals come together as humble Armenians (not as members of a political party, organization, citizen of a country or a relegion) and propose a positive plan.
1 week 2 days ago
As to the clarification of my post regarding the pilgrimage of Armenians to Akhtamar, I believe it is significant that a huge number of Armenian pilgrims, in the thousands perhaps, if allowed by the Turkish authorities, would go to the church that has Armenian inscriptions, and as good Christians they will pray there. Something that has no precedent in Turkey. I take it you would agree that many non-Armenian media representatives will be there. It is indeed a very impressive change in Turkey's attitude towards their previous "rayas". You see, the Turkish "Voj" (style), is to give in "yavash-yavash" (by and by).
On the other hand, if we don´t go then the Turkish media, and by extension government, will broadcast to the world that Armenians do not wish to accept our "kind" invitation, although this is a veiled and intended for other purposes. I do not trust their sincerity yet, but we must play along with them. Preferably a more compromising mode,especially to the world, than an unrelenting rejection. Turkey would love to see the latter, so as to boast that they are compromising, whereas Armenians are not. Dialogue, in short, is better than shunning away their sugar-coated offerings.
Thence, by going we loose nothing on the contrary gain
1 week 2 days ago
Could he please clarify what he wants to say in the third paragraph? I cracked my brains to understand. Alas, I could not.
1 week 2 days ago
I wonder how many Armenian Diaspora leaders, particularly Tashnagtsoutune heads, are reading the heart-rending comments in response to your "United We Stand..." editorial. And more importantly, how many of Tashnagtsoutune leaders will come forward to help unify the Diaspora and guarantee its survival? When will Tashnag leaders realize that the nation is more important than the Tashnag Party? When will they realize that without Diaspora Armenians, there will be no Tashnagtsoutune Party?
Tashnagtsoutune is the single largest Diaspora Armenian bloc, and the best organized entity. Willy-nilly, without Tashnagtsoutune's participation, there can't be a meaningul united Diaspora effort to guarantee the survival of our communities which are scattered around the globe. Thus, Tashnagtsoutune bears the responsibility to do the heavy lifting, rather than the Ramgavars or Hnchags.
I believe Tashnagtsoutune leaders should invite the heads of the other parties, organizations, etc. to a national gathering, to draw long-term plans on cooperation aimed at guaranteeing the vibrancy of the Diaspora. We have to do it ourselves: we can't expect help from the Republic of Armenia, where Tashnags rarely win more than 5% of the votes.
I, like many other concerned Armenians, am frustrated by the drifting (slow demise?) of the Diaspora. I don't know what it would take to make Diaspora realize that if it doesn't take action, our days outside Armenia are numbered. We are divided, even in far away communities where there are only a handful of Armenians. And divided about what? Pray tell what are these significant (?) difference which are more important than our surival?
Imagine this scenario from a history book or even from the movies: A city is under siege. It's surrounded by much-stronger attackers who are determined to bring down the city walls and exterminate its defenders. And inside the wall, the feckless defenders are fighting among themselves because they disagree on the colour of the uniform their soldiers should wear. This is what's been happening in the Diaspora since the early 1920s, and every year the defenders get weaker and still undecided on the colour of their soldiers' uniforms. But I can guess that if the defenders don't unite right now, the uniforms of everyone will soon be red.
1 week 3 days ago
I am not certain if this piece will see the light of the day on this forum. I wrote on another quite respected forum site that our Babiks, Mamiks are bound to go. As well as some who think as I do, thus:- Go if you must and show up in planned numbers. However, if the local authorities have again placed Ataturk image or turkish flag draped on facade of church or inside, stay out of the church.
Conduct the liturgy in the open air in a civilized manner. If they do not allow candles to be lit, so be it. But by not going there, that is the Turkish Government´s intention, if programmed to make it appear their complacency to world public opinion and diplomacy, which is very most probably so intended will bear fruit for them,not us.
On the other hand by a huge crowd of pilgrims making their way through ancestors' land and being there, at a thousand year old Armenian church on Armenian soil and as Armenian Pilgrims, is self explanatory... In short a good means presented to us proving authenticity of it being Armenian King Gagik Artzrouni´s dedication to Christianity.This indeed is more than important.
Gaytzag Palandjian
1 week 3 days ago
Blame it on the decimation of Armenian intellectuals in 1915 if you will, but the Armenian diaspora today has been reduced to a monolithic and mind-numbing emotional reaction to the national crisis of 1915, tempered by romantic notions about the long ago and far away. That's all there is and that's all we want or so it seems--even as Armenia approaches a potential national crisis in 2015.
But your survey of the sorry state of politics in the Diaspora is useful and informative, and your review of the cultural developments in Turkey is hopeful as well. While anger and grief may be sustaining Tashnagtsoutune (and perhaps the Church), with all due respect, after 95 years, they have contributed little to nation-building and don't play well in public.
1 week 3 days ago
Armenians have many admirable traits which have enabled our survival during our long history. Why are we not like the Babylonians, Sumerians, Incas or the Aztecs? These were great civilizations that were our contemporaries, but now do not exist. Yet we survive. That's the good news to ponder.
Unfortunately, modern Armenians are also driven by two negative forces--an obsessive hatred of Turks and an unhealthy, intra-competitive mentality. One of the results of the denied justice re the Genocide is that we are left bitter and full of hate. Although at times this can fuel activism, it also blinds us to opportunities. The current Akhtamar situation is an excellent example. We only see this from the perspective of mistrust and anger, thus the call for its boycott. As a result, we miss the chance to turn the tables on the Turks, get our message out to the world and take advantage of the situation. Our answer is to reject any possibilities because of our hatred of Turkey. This ignores the new realities and greatly limits our effectiveness. If we are truly commited to our cause, we must subordinate our anger to our goals.
In today's Armenian Diaspora it is not sufficient to identify one's self simply as Armenians. We are first Tashnags, Diocese, Prelacy, AGBU, etc. These are the vehicles by which we express our commitment, but the irony is that they have also come to represent intracompetive forces. For every option there is an alternative that looks at the other as competitor for the minds and wallets of individuals. We have the AYF or the ACYOA for the youth; we have the ARS and the AGBU for philanthropic projects. Many cities have a diocesan and a prelacy church. We have competing dioceses in three regions in North America etc, etc, etc.
Each of these groups is full of dedicated and hard -working people. The walls between them, especially how they view each other is at best sub-optimal and at worst amot!
The first change required is one of mindset. We need to express a true love of all people and organizations. This is not an idealistic or abstract notion. For example, when you meet an Armenian from your area who goes to a different church, be happy that he is a participant in our Church and community--and not view him as someone who goes to a church other than mine.
If major organizations conducted joint high-profile projects, we would begin to adopt new behaviors. It is sad to see active Armenians don't have the opportunity to work together because of our institutionalized walls.
I have great expectations for our people. Let's pray that we begin to change the paridigm and stay commited to our common purpose.
1 week 3 days ago
If the Turkish government is aiming at staging a public event to enhance its international image, why can't Armenians seize the opportunity and do the same to advance our cause? Clearly, protest is in order re Aghtamar, but in a respectful public worship at the ancient sacred site. The Hay Aspeth youth group members captured themselves for You-tube while being evicted from the church. That was easy, and all well and good, but is that all there is?
Bartholomew, the Greek Orthodox patriarch of Istanbul proclaimed on the CBS news show "Sixty Minutes" that he feels "crucified" by Turkish authorities. This is no doubt true. I've seen follow-up comments on the 60 Minutes website, disputing the accuracy of the story, the authority of Patriarch and the supremacy of the Orthodox Church. Is that what the public wants to hear?
How often do Armenians get the chance to publicly profess their Christian faith with dignity and courage and at a world cultural site with an international audience? Isn't that what Armenians and the world really NEED to see?
1 week 3 days ago
I, for one, am proud of the manner in which these young people behaved. It shows to the world that as hard as Turkey tries to rewrite history, each successive generation will continue to carry on the message of its ancestors. These youngsters who came from Armenia, showed the Diaspora a thing or two. Bless each and everyone of them.
1 week 3 days ago
The Genocide was committed ON land Ruled by the Ottomans AGAINST subjects of the Ottoman Empire BY other Ottoman subjects and of course the State as instigator whether they admit it or not.
So who can claim, well, Ottoman subjects of Armenian origin and their successors, mainly the Western Armenians and their heirs in the Republic of Turkey, Armenia or wherever they are in the world today
But to claim that, you have to prove your relation to the land or home you were removed from, you need documents, you need to prepare your file, you need to do research, you need to question those living from that era and record their memories before they fade out, you need to state somewhere.
I joined the Organization "Pan-Armenian conference of lawyers" created last September for the primary objective of preparing for such a claim, something similar to the Jewish claim. Their business oriented approach to the subject succeeded in securing huge compensations from Germany and other countries involved from that time to this time and the future too and with increasing amounts as well.
Sadly as everything else Armenian we lack coordination, communication and group effort. Every week you hear of another group of Armenian lawyers doing this and doing that; there is no collective effort, there is no UNIFIED approach. How can we succeed when there are a hundred captains and only one ship.
1 week 3 days ago
There is a time to be humble and a time to speak aloud. We have not yet learned proper timing for either.
Akhtamar for Turks is understandable to be a museum. The question is do Armenian leaders think otherwise?
1 week 3 days ago
How right Vartkes is.....This is a Turkish ploy to pull wool over the world's acknowledgement of the Genocide. Akhtamar is a museum in the eyes of perfidious Turks....Just recently Armenian children who visited the church were forbidden to light candles.....What more this editorial needs to know the intentions of Turks?
1 week 4 days ago
The Boston Globe,12 August 2010
Schools can exclude materials disputing Armenian genocide
By Peter Schworm, The Boston Globe,12 August 2010
In a closely watched case, a federal appeals court yesterday ruled that statewide public school guidelines on teaching human rights history can exclude materials disputing that the mass slaying of Armenians in the First World War era constituted genocide.
The decision, written by retired Supreme Court justice David Souter, who occasionally hears cases with the First Circuit Court of Appeals, found that state education officials did not violate public school students’ free speech rights in 1999, when they excluded all “contra-genocide’’ sources calling the Armenian genocide into question.
Van Z. Krikorian, a professor at Pace University Law School who filed a brief defending the state’s move, said he was thrilled by the ruling, equating those who dispute the genocide designation to Holocaust deniers.
“It would have put human rights education in reverse,’’ he said. “It’s a major defeat for genocide denial.’’
Upholding a lower-court decision, the court ruled that although state guidelines were advisory, and “not meant to declare other positions out of bounds in study and discussion,’’ they were part of the official curriculum and therefore under the discretion of state authorities.
Requiring that officials include references to dissenting viewpoints, Souter wrote, “might actually have the effect of foreclosing future opportunities for open enquiry in the classroom.’’
Harvey Silverglate, a Boston civil rights lawyer representing the Assembly of Turkish American Associations, had argued that removing the references amounted to government censorship and prevented students from hearing both sides.
“It always is a sad day when a court constricts First Amendment rights rather than expand them,’’ he said. “I think they made a mistake.’’ Silverglate said his clients will consider whether to appeal.
The Turkish-American group disputes that the Muslim Turkish Ottoman Empire committed genocide against its Christian Armenian minority population. Over 1.5 million Armenians died at the hands of Turkish forces, but Turkish activists maintain it was not the result of a policy.
In 1998, the Legislature ordered the state Board of Education to prepare an advisory curriculum guide for teaching about genocide and human rights, and a draft of the guide initially included a section on the “Armenian Genocide.’’ Under pressure from Turkish advocacy groups, the commissioner of education, David P. Driscoll, revised the draft to include references to opposing views, said the ruling.
When officials filed the guide with legislators in March 1999, the state’s Armenian community protested the inclusion of “contra-genocide’’ viewpoints, and the education commissioner removed the references.
Peter Schworm can be reached at schworm@globe.com.
1 week 4 days ago
1 week 4 days ago
Actually the messiah that you are talking about is the only saviour of Armenians; it has to be the Russians (unfortunately). We have two options:
On the other hand, we will have full protection by their army, we will still exist even if we fall below 1million in population. We even can benefit from their resources and we don't have to worry about imminent war and extermination.
We have to be realistic and 'see' the facts that we don't have too many options anymore...
1 week 4 days ago
Notice how rarely the Armenian government even brings up, for example, the genocide issue in international forums.
We in the Diaspora need to have support from the Armenian state itself. This is not an excuse for the Diaspora not to act more forcefully, but I merely point it out.
The Armenian government often seems to acts as an extension of the Russian state, which of course could not care less about the Armenian genocide. To what extent is the Armenian government a puppet regime?
1 week 4 days ago
Any Armenian political party, specially Tashnagtsoutune, regard themselves as a higher entity than the nation of Armenia. Their interests come first than the nation's, their priorities are "higher"...
I will not be surprised if they denounce the Armenian state if their survival is based on such an act...
Asking Tashnagtsoutune to join forces with another entity is a big mistake, since their only strategy is to join-to-destroy other initiatives.
1 week 4 days ago
You are advocating that we should publicize the Akhtamar incident and try to get the attention of the public, media and Turks in that respect. It may do what?
A) The spot will become a prominent tourist attraction benefiting only the Turks
B) The Turks will show the world that they have renovated the place out of their own expense and the Armenians are trying to take ownership of it...
C) The media and the Turks can easily make a point that the place is a museum and not for worship. Touching, candles and other incense is forbidden in any museum. We lose the case either way!
If we don't have the Armenian government's backing, we shouldn't do anything in this respect, since this is a major issue only resolvable by political means. The Armenian government should let UNESCO and the World know that this is a religious place and belongs to Armenians and/or it shouldn't be represented as a museum only.
Simple demonstrations will not do it.
1 week 4 days ago
Please consider that the Church at present is designated as a Museum and not a place for prayer. Would any museum allow people to light candles in it?
Secondly, nowhere in the video shows that the "children were thrown out" of the church as some hot-headed people are reporting on various forums and individual mails.
Thirdly, and most important matter, leave the children out of politics please.
If you have a say as an adult then act accordingly. Raise your voice wherever you wish but don't hold children as hostages in a complicated political situation. Turkey will use the Mass at Aghtamar in September for political gains. Is the answer to that this video?
Please give me a break!
1 week 4 days ago
By Sandy Smith, HULIQ, 2010-08-21
The church of Sourp Khatch, or Holy Cross, was a cathedral of the Armenian Apostolic Church dating back to the 10th century; its priests and monks were murdered and monastery at the church destroyed in the Armenian genocide of 1915. In 2005-06, as part of the fitful path toward reconciliation between Armenia and Turkey, the Turkish government launched a costly and controversial restoration of the cathedral building, which reopened in 2007 as a secular museum in a ceremony to which Armenian government officials and the international press were invited.
Since then, Turkish officials have been reluctant to allow any religious activities at the site beyond a service scheduled for the end of this month, a stance that has offended Armenian religious leaders. Meanwhile, some Muslim Turks have also protested the church's reopening on the grounds that a Christian place of worship, even if run as a museum, is inappropriate in a Muslim country.
Armenian children on field trip ousted for religious activities at Sourp Khatch church in Turkey
It was in this context that the visit of a group of Armenian schoolchildren to Sourp Khatch became an international incident. The children were on a field trip sponsored by an Armenian youth education group called Hay Aspeth (Armenian Knight). When the children began to light candles in the church, a Turkish policeman in the building told them they could not, as the soot from the candles would stain the church walls. The group then moved into the center of the room with their lit candles and began to sing and pray, at which point the police told them to leave the church.
The children and their escorts continued to sing and pray outside the building, on the church grounds, but police also disrupted their efforts to light incense and candles at gravestones and cross-stones in the churchyard.
The field trip, which ended Aug. 17, was sponsored by Hay Aspeth in order to introduce Armenian youth to the historic heart of Armenia, which lies today in eastern Turkey.
Some Turkish newspaper commentators have criticized the Turkish government's behavior in reopening the church as largely a publicity stunt to score points in the court of world opinion.
1 week 4 days ago
The so-called boycott will not be effective. The world media will cover the Holy Mass at Aghtamar. If any Armenian Party or organization has anything to say, they should attend the Mass, make it successfull, and express their feelings in front of the world media.
2 weeks 17 hours ago
This brief article raises several important issues if and when Armenians seriously challenge Turkey to reclaim their rights, including lands. It appears that people are attempting to define the claimant. That I would consider progress in the path of exploring the correct legal grounds.
According to this article it's only the successors of the Genocide and not the entire Armenian body that can be the claimant. This seems to be logical. Yet, to my understanding, it's only a state, a country that can bring matters related to Genocide to International courts according to conventions recognized by international institutions. Where does that leave the present Republic of Armenia? The authors seem to exclude it. Can somebody knowledgeable of the legal issues clarify this matter please?
2 weeks 1 day ago
Հ. Գ. (18. 08. 2010)
Հարգելի Պարոյր,
Գրությունս կրկին կարդալով, նկատեցի, որ իմ առաջարկած լուծումը (միտքը) թերի է: Լրացնելով միտքս ասեմ, որ Հայաստանին ու հայրենաբնակ մեր ժողովրդին սոցալիստական դինամիկ ու իրավահավասար ուղիով զարգացող նոր համակարգ կարող է փրկել տնտեսակական հետամնացությունից ու շահագործումից : Սովետական սոցիալիզմի կարոտախտով չեմ տառապում ( հակառակ այն բանին, որ այն շատ դրական կողմեր ուներ): Կապիտալիզմը և նրա ազատ շուկայական հարաբերություններն իրենց դարը ապրել են : Վկան աշխարհի բնակչության կեսից ավելին աղքատության, թշվառության, հիվանդության ու անգրագիտության մեջ գտնվելու փաստն է: Այդ դրամատիրական համակարգը հայաստանում հրաշք կատարել չի կարող:
Հայաստան ասելով ես հասկանում են Արևելյան Հայաստան, Արևմտյան Հայաստան՝ ներառյալ Արցախն ու Նախիջևանը: Հիշում եմ ցեղասպանության 50 ամյակի երևանյան ցույցերը, երբ գոռում էինք. «Արևմտյան Հայաստանի հողերը» ... Մեծանուն վիպասան Սերո Խանզադյանը զայրացած ասաց. «Ի՞նչ է , Արցախն ու Նախիջևանը հայկական հողեր չե՞ն»:
Այո՛, խոսքս ամբողջական Հայաստանի մասին է:
Թուրքիայի Հանրապետության իշխանությունները շատ են ցանկանում միջամտել Արցախի հարցերին: Ինձ թվում է դա այդքան էլ վատ « նախաձեռնություն» չէ:
Հայաստանի Հանրապետության իշխանություններն այս անգամ պետք է Թուրքիայի հետ բանակցության մեջ մտնեն նախապայմաններով, իրենց հետ ունենալով համայն հայությունը: Փոխարեն ուշացումով նախագահին «դավաճան» անվանելու , հասկանալի է, խելացի կլինի հիմա իմի բերենք մեր բոլոր հնարավոր միջոցները ( լինելով իրապաշտ ու չկտրվելով իրականությունից) պայքարենք մեր ազգային իրավունքների համար:
Հաագայի միջազգային դատարանի սեղանին ենք դնում հայոց դեմ գործադրված ցեղասպանության իրողությունը, Արևմտյան Հայաստանի տարածքային ու անշարժ գույքի խնդիրները , Նախիջևանի ու Լեռնային Ղարաբաղի հանրապետության ինքնորոշման հարցերը:
Դատարան Ներկայանում են Հայստանի Հանրապետությունը, Լեռնային Ղարաբաղի Հանրապետությունը, սփյուռքի Արևմտայան Հայաստանի ներկայացուչությունը (կազմվելիք), Թուրքիայի հանրապետությունը և Ադրբեջանի Հանրապետությունը:
Եթե Հայությունը հաստատակամ հավատում է իր ուժերին ու վճռականորեն պատրաստ է զոհողություններ կատարելու իր իրավունքներին հասնելու համար, կարծում եմ նշված մոդելը աշխատանքային ձև է: Թող այլոք ավելի խելացի մտքեր առաջարկեն: Նոր հեծանիվ չենք հնարում, աշխատանքային մեթոդիկան հայտնի է:
Արամայիս Միրզախանյան
Շվեդիա, Սթոքհոլմ
2 weeks 2 days ago
Sireli, hamadzayn em kez hed Hayastani-in bedk er Shvedagan tipi socialism Soved miutyan pluzumic yedk. Sagayn ,arnvazn indz haydni e inchu ayd ch´dasavorvec yev voch mntsort 14 ourish respublica nerin...ancnink..kanzi cavok mer Hairenik ingadz e "wild, free economy" hosankin mej, yev havada anhanrin e ayd oughutyun pokhele.
Nouynn al g´veraperi miusnerun i bacaryal yete mi Anagngal heghapokhutyun gam arnvazn yeghapokhtyun deghi ounena.Yergrortin yes aveli g´havadam.Toghnenk gousagcaganutyan gam gaghparagan modecumner (gidem ko gaghparabanutyun-wor vsdah em yergar dariner Shvedya abrelov yeghapokhvadz e aveli Shveda-Finlanda yev harevvan meg yergu ourish yergirneru tekoumin. La,shad lav. Bayc ov e "zangage gadvi vzin gakhelu?" yentadrenk socialisdagan hoverov ARF-Dashnagcutyune? Cavok noka el chunencan ayd hghich ouyzhe yev chunen-yes gusagcagan chem yev chem el linelu. Ounem im Loucoum, zor voch ays gayke-eji vra bidi hradaragvi-ayd porcel em, yev voch ourishneri...asel e hosankneri tekvogh gam badganogh. Ouremn sharunagoum em miaynag jankers.Vercheres Yerevan bavagan andzderi hed shpvel em, orinag,Barouyr Hairikian, Rafi Hovanissian, Shavarsh Kocharyan, Arman Giragosian, Lavrenti Barseghyan, Armen Ayvazyan, Ara Papian, XXX zor aveli lourj bahdonneri vra en, garj, zinyal ouyzheri meg jyughavoroum, spyurki naxararutyan, yev der mi ges dasnyag yevs.
Haye inknishkhan e bnouytov, shad dzhvar meg miusin lsogh gam nuynisk get mdig dvogh, yev amena sarsapelin wor vercherres barz grvetz indz harcazrouyc varogh journalist Ashkhdac tertoum ayn e 4rt inknishkhanoutyun, Hunis 30, tiv 157, yev 159 tiv Hulis 2. Meberoumnerov ourish garevor mer mdavoraganneric ayd masin nshel em. Iharge bun nbadags ayd che, ayl spyurki veragazmavorum wor ays gayk eji khmbakir lav gidi, tebedev im Angliereni dgar linelu gam ays ayn badjarnervov chi ouzel hantroutyan nergayacvi, gayk ejs el www.Armeniad-worldwide.org arten grete daari e wor chem garoghacel veradarcnel ir degh. Nouynisk Yerevan yeridasartner wor ayd masnagidutyan mej en chen garoghacel Amerigyan web hosting ic kashel debi irencin. Ispnancin gaser. "Ve te a saber" go figure out why, gna hasgcir gdri inchu. Toghnenk kez maghtum em hajoghutyun ayd nbadagid hasnelun ayne iragan Yevrobagan, aveli jisdt Shevedagan socialist Armenia. Worin yes necug g´linem amoghj eutyamb, aveli shud glinei, sagayn shad oush enk mnacel hosank danoum e....debi verohishyal system wor amrqgrvqdze e nakhgin 15 oum el. Desnenk havadank hrashkneri.
dzerd,
Hama Haigagani siro,
Gaytzag Palandjian
2 weeks 4 days ago
Սիրելի Պարոյր, ցավերի տեղը գիտենք,« Կրնայ ըլլալ որ բոլորին նպատակը նոյնն է, բայց ձեւն ու ժամանակը՝ տարբեր, այդուհանդերձ, ներելի՞ է նախապատուութիւններու շարքը նոյնը պահել, երբ Հայաստանի մէջ դասակարգայնութիւնը խոր արմատներ սկսած է նետել՝ պալատականներու բացարձակատիրութեամբ, անդին՝ Արցախի լինելիութեան գրաւականները կը շահագործուին ոմանց կողմէ՝ ներքին թէ արտաքին միջամտութիւններով, մինչ Սփիւռքը՝ կը խարխափի իր ցաւերուն ու տագնապներուն մէջ, մերթ յամեցող բեւեռացումներով, մերթ անտարբերութիւններու եւ անտեսութիւններու շատացումով:»
Առաջարկեք լուծում՝ Ի՞ՆՉ ԱՆԵԼ: Ես ունեմ իմ լուծումը՝ Կեցցե Հայաստանի Սոցիալիստական Հանրապետությունը: Երևանյան ողջույններով, ուսանողական տարիների ընկեր՝ Արամայիս Միրզախանյան Ստոքհոլմ, 16 08 2010 aramais.m@live.se
2 weeks 4 days ago
Gergrortem esadzet Serj, bedk e zkouch ellal Terenig-en, manavant vor al chad vad anoun ouni haygagan cherchanagi mech. Zarmanalin ayn e vor kani me dariner arach, irarou tem baykar ounetsadz en (Terenig vs. Appahayr).
2 weeks 5 days ago
2 weeks 5 days ago
Yes, and to march on the Russian embassy and tell it to stop kissing up to Turkey, bidding to sell Turkey weapons, building power plants for Turkey and supplying it with natural gas, as well as forcing its "ally" Armenia to sign the infamous protocols. And tell Russia to stop kissing up to Azerbaijan and selling it weapons.
Then march on the American embassy and European embassies and make similar protests.
None of these countries are Armenia's friends. They have all used and abused us throughout history. Young people and older ones, too, must learn the history of these betrayals.
Why are Armenians letting countries who betrayed us (France, US, Russia) negotiate an alleged peace agreement with Azerbaijan? Why do Armenians trust any of these countries? Why do not young people know the history how those countries have betrayed Armenians so that history does not repeat itself?
2 weeks 5 days ago
Some dacades ago, Mr. Terenik was involved in ousting Mr.Injejikian, the founder of the first Ferrahian Armenian High School in the United States. After reaching his goals, Mr. Terenik disapeared from the Ferrahian school. Now he has surfaced again to do damage to the Mekitarians.How did he get involved with the Mekhitarians?
Mekhitariantsis BEWARE of him.
2 weeks 6 days ago
Such an honest and sobering commentary on Armenian affairs is refreshing. Also, thanks to your first commenter for pointing out the tragic disconnect between higher education and nation building in Armenia. But, perhaps the crushing pain and humiliation of 20th century Armenian history is finally lifting so that we can begin to see the world as it really is.
2 weeks 6 days ago
University students in Armenia upon receiving their diploma need to have jobs in their specialities, in what they studied. To survive many of the graduates are working in areas that do not need qualifications, and others seek jobs consistent with their level of education outside Armenia.
I witnessed it; I was in Armenia in May and received a lot of complaints about this lack of attention of the government and society towards the university graduates.
3 weeks 7 hours ago
I am glad that there are people like Mr.. Mekhitarian that have the courage to write, and open the public's eyes on what's behind the closed curtains of Mekhitarian Congregation today.
It will be a pleasure to have a conversation with Mr. Mekhitarian discussing theses matters.
3 weeks 1 day ago
What kind of expressions are these highlighted words? ("Maghz uni, geh halazeh aradavorel miyapanutyan vargeh, tjpaghtapar yev anarjanapar ghege yeghaz eh.")
Dear Keghart readers, who gave the right to Mr. Mkhitarian to put an important subject such as he claims in such expressions which do not relate to Appahayr Yeghia's character?
We all want investigation and control because the Mkhitarian Congregation is an important Christian and Armenian institution, but I do not accept such street-level articles. For God sake, let us be constructive critics rather destructive.
3 weeks 2 days ago
B. Aghbashian's approach to our most important problems is highly appreciated. Armenia, Artsakh and Diaspora equally invite our full attention and full support.
We hope to organize our socio-intellectual brain power, to purify the ideas expressed therein and to create a solid ground for our national ideology.
Thanking u for this opportunity,
Aram Sepetjian
3 weeks 2 days ago
I am not a fan of partisan politics, and certainly not of Mr. Aghbashian's socio-political ideology. In addition, his dry style has discouraged me from reading his articles, likewise the convoluted arguments and excessive superlatives.
This piece sounds to be a change, a breath of fresh air. Maybe at the time of his writing he was not under the daily stress of party politics and his many years of public service has broadened the contextual base.
His depiction of matters is relevant to what the Diaspora is experiencing. It's in pains, but not of conception or birth. It's the excruciating ache of rotting bones, signalling the collapse of the skeleton within the body. Once that skeleton has dissolved, there won't be a recognizable figure. That's where we are at now.
Are other matters less important, such as Armenia and Artsakh? Obviously not, but the Diaspora needs a lifeline, and I would agree with the author's recommended remedies.
One final remark. I hope that Mr. Aghbashian, and others like him, continue to write and lecture on matters of Armenolgy, and express concerns of a wider range, as is done in this guest editorial. Brevity of expression is appreciated.
Thank you.
3 weeks 2 days ago
I made an effort to read all available articles on Keghart.com written by Mr. Vosgan Mekhitarian. Is it a coincidence that his name and that of the congregation are the same? All contain materials that it's hard to think they are fabricated. What surprises me is the absence of public response by the congregation itself to these allegations, unless I have missed them. Something which is not unlikely.
It would serve the public's interest if somebody could clear the air and either refute the allegations of mismanagement and a behaviour almost bordering incompetence or provide a plausible explanation of why things are run the way they are.
Let me remind only one instance amongst many. It's almost unbelievable that a lawn that bears an interest rate in double digits is favoured against another which is less by more than half. Is this a made up story? Any member of the non-profit organization mentioned by Mr. Mekhitarian, I think, can simply visit Bank of America and verify.
Probably Boghos Mardirossian, who has commented, is partly correct in stating that character and personalities should be off limit. That for the sake of not confusing issues at hand with traits and what not of persons involved. Their actions surely should be looked at and investigated for as long as they affect "Armenian Life" as he terms it.
In this day and age nobody is beyond public scrutiny, not even presidents and prime ministers or the Pope. Would it be "insulting" to add the revered Appahayr Yeghia's name on this list? Nobody is infallible. One might be a great teacher and spiritual leader but lack the skills of management.
3 weeks 2 days ago
We should learn from the civilized world that we are not allowed to overpass our freedom of writing and insult people and degrade their personalities because of personal or public affair issues.
Let us be intelligent enough to respect "Hankamanks" and only discuss the subject in objective and scientific way . What will I benefit or other Armenian reader benefit when Mr. Vosgan shamelessly insults a famous Armenian figure like Hayr Yeghia Appahayr. Mr. Vosgan has no right to insult anybody but has the right to express his opinion about any matter related to Armenian life.
I would have respected him more if he would have not agressively attacked Appahayr's person. It is not his job or right. Who does he think of himself, the angel of Mekhitarists without any personal faults? We all have mistakes but nobody will accept Mr. Vosgan's way of insulting articles on an important and respected Armenian Mekhitarist congregation leader.
I never forget my Moorat Raphael years and their high influence on my education. I am grateful first to my saviour Jesus Christ and then to my Mekhitarist teachers like Hayr Levon Zekian, Hayr Raphael Andonian, Hayr Yeghia (Now Appahayr), Hayr Mikael (Mkho) and Hayr Vertanes (God bless their both souls), Hayr Ghugas and Hayr Hosep and many others...... All of them prepared strong Armenian generations who are now all around the world. What did Vosgan give to Armenians? Do we want to accept his insults of Appahayr. "Kav Litzi" Baron Vosgan, that will never happen.
Now I am alone responding to him; you will recieve hundreds of letters in support of Appahayr Yeghia because we all love that Heros Appahayr who is running our beloved and respected Congregation . Nobody is allowed to speak or write insulting letters on Appahayr Yeghia. Please go ahead and criticize his work but not his pure and good personality.
3 weeks 2 days ago
I admit that I had remained uninformed all my life about the Armenian Catholic Church. Attending Mass in the Armenian Catholic Church for the very first time became an eye-opening education to me. Hearing the Mass in Armenian and the sermon in an impeccable Armenian, seeing the carvings on the walls of the church of our great religious leaders, the exquisite sanctuary and the impressive complex will forever remain etched in my memory as first impressions are lasting impressions. Henceforth, whenever there is an Armenian Catholic Church I will head there on December 24 to celebrate Christmas and I urge all Armenians to do so along with the January 6 Armenian Christmas Celebration.
I have never met Appahayr Yeghia but I have remained so impressed by him because of the short presentation I read about him for the very first time in Kessabtsis Yearbook and Directory. I admit I am biased in favor of Kessabsis. I took the liberty and wrote the following about Appahayr Yeghia in the article titled Kessab Ousoumnasirats Celebrates Centennial that Keghart graciously published on January 8 of this year. In that article I wrote the following about Appahayr Yeghia “Father Yeghia Kilaghbian left Kesssab at the age 13 to attend the Mkhitarian monastic order on San Lazaro Island in Venice, and is now the Abbot of the Mkhitarian order famed for its Armenian scholarship.” I regard his quest for life long celebrates priesthood in service to God and people a vivid testimonial of a devoted man.
Lately I have been reading controversial assessments about Appahayr Yeghia. It is a common knowledge that “motive” is the primary driver when investigating a misdeed. I believe the Keghart readers will be better informed if the motives behind this controversy are discussed and not the controversy per se.
Reading these articles and letters, naturally I wonder, what could possibly the motives of Appahayr Yeghia be? It does not seem plausible that a life long celibate priest of the order not to have the best intentions for the order in his own way. He is the Appahayr, which I assume is the highest authority of the order. All may not share Appahayr’s actions and decisions. However, it is his prerogative to make such decisions in his best judgment. Therefore the reader will be better informed if the perceived ill intended motives of the Appahayr are discussed rather than the decisions of the Appahayr that may not sit well with some or many.
3 weeks 3 days ago
Yete ays nyuti masin ches kider, avelort e kaghaparner dalet. Amen inch vor kervadz e appahor masin djisht eh. Gerna ellal tsezi shad lav mart ge tever payts grnam esel vor yergeresani ants men eh. Baron Vosgan-e inkn al zoh katsadz e sireli appahoret kathcakordzoutyounneroun.
Shenorhagalutyun
3 weeks 3 days ago
Your Hidden agenda of dissolving Mekhitarist congregation will not be sucessful Mr. Vosgan.
Once an Indian Muslim asked Mahatma Ghandi to get converted from Islam to Hinduism. The great leader instead of encouraging his Muslim admirer said, "In spring the beauty of the garden comes with many colours of flowers, not with one colour".
Armenian Christian life's beauty is in its diversity and not having one adminstrative Christian administration. We are not communists lead by one centre. We like to be united with each other much like the founding fathers who wrote the American constitution, but held their varying views as intellectuals.
You are living in the United Sates of America and not in the Republic of China. Although all the States are united together, each has its own local legislature, laws and governor, serving under one flag. The citizens of each state feel responsible for the protection, success and progress of USA.
Let us be constructive critics of Armenian life in general rather than destructive. Mekhitarist "chah" is shining forever and I think verchaluyse will never come and God forbid that day. Jesus our Lord will not allow that.
Abri Mekhitarian chahe yev ir hedevortnere.
3 weeks 3 days ago
I am a 1987 Moorat Raphael College graduate. I have known Hayr Appahayr Yeghia since then, when he was my history teacher. He was one of my best teachers and a model of humility and intelligence, a highly educated elder father and brother to me. There is a belief that people rarely change. When I knew Father Yeghia, he was in his late thirties. Now he is in his late fifties or early sixties.
Dear readers of Keghart, Father Appahayr Yeghia is the same person and with the same character that I knew him in the '80s. I do not believe Osgan, the so-called outspoken critic of the Armenian clergy. Father Yeghia is a valuable member of the Armenian Mekhitarist congregation. I understand the democracy of Keghart, but dear Keghart editor, before you publish such a report, consider that it has has no basis in fact and divides a valuable Armenian congregation and injures its reputation--specially the reputation of such a big vartabed, who is now Appahayr and who prepared generations of Armenian intellectuals in Diaspora and has dedicated his life to Jesus and to Armenian communities in Diaspora.
Dear Editor of Keghart, ask what Mr. Osgan gave to Armenian life other than his divisive article and his planting of hatred and suspicion for a great and humble man such as Appahayr Hayr Yehghia. When I read the hatred-filled article, I had to write about the real Hayr Yeghia. God bless his soul and his work. May Jesus protect him from jealous and selfish people, and hidden agenda holders such as Mr. Osgan.
Dear Editor of Keghart, now you have the responsibility to clarify and give the same opportunity to Hayr Appahayr Yeghia, and specially to his surp congregation of Mekhitarians and others like me who believe you are not an unwilling partner to people like Mr. Osgan, who mess with the reputation of a 300-year-old Armenian congregation.
Hayr Yehghia represents that congregation. Most of the congregation members voted for him. He is not a dictator. He is an honest and intelligent clergyman, who united the Vienna and Venice Mekhiitarist congregations. It is a big accomplishment. Now people like Osgan are writing false information about Appahayr Yeghia. I and thousand other Mekhitarist representatives refuse such untrue accusations by Mr. Osgan. If I had been a lawyer in LA, I would have sued people like Mr. Osgan for their false accusations against the Armenian clergyman.
We need to remember what the Mekhitarist congregation has given to the Armenian nation. Let us respect Hayr Ghevont Alishan, the great Armenian historian; Taniel Varujan; and Mgrdich Beshigtashlian. Mr Osgan has the nerve to speak about the present head of that remarkable Armenian congregation. Although the character of a Mekhitarist father cannot be judged by the great fathers of the past, knowing Hayr Yeghia, the great teacher and brother, I will not allow anyone to malign him because Hayr Yeghia deserves respect from every Armenian in Diaspora and in Mayr Hayasdan.
God bless you Hayr Yeghia. I know you are above all this undignified talk. May God protect you and our congregation.
3 weeks 3 days ago
I sent them a few e-mails, but received no response.
May be they went out of print or else were not well disposed to have an "intruder".I wonder. Hope they continue to publish though.
Does anyone online know of it?
3 weeks 3 days ago
Is this the same person as the Imam in the United States Ghazaros is talking about, or is it another Imam?
Best,
Hovann
3 weeks 3 days ago
Respects,
Hamo Moskofian - Frankfurt
3 weeks 4 days ago
TheStar.com
Turkey diary: Some Final Thoughts
By Jasmeet Sidhu
The level and intensity of the response compelled me to write a follow-up post.
The purpose of this blog as designed by senior editors charged with training and development at the Toronto Star, was to provide a forum for student interns and student journalists to write and share their experiences, both within the journalism world and their activities outside of it.
I was invited to write about my experiences in Turkey this past month to provide an exploratory perspective on the country and the issues the country is facing based on the people I was fortunate enough to meet while there -- all with the full disclosure that I am still a student and still learning the various topics that I brought up in my post.
Referring to my post on the Armenian genocide, I first want to clarify that I am by no means questioning whether the horrible events of 1915 took place -- I wrote the blog because I felt that it was interesting to share the strong standpoint that members of the Turkish government were putting forward, vastly in contrast to much of the international political community and academic consensus on the issue.
When I wrote in the post about the urge to do more research after the meeting and to become your own critic of events, I was speaking for my newfound curiosity to sit down with several books on the topic, and to try to understand how and why the Turkish government continues with their narrative and disbelief of the genocide despite the strong scholarly evidence and the consensus of the international political community, documents and books that I wanted and would like to read in the coming months.
Finally, there is an error I would like to correct from the original post - there have been several governments around the world that have officially recognized the Armenian genocide, including Canada, with this link providing the list of countries as one commenter kindly provided.
Having now returned to Canada after a month in the country, I maintain that Turkey is one of the most interesting and dynamic countries moving deeper within the 21st century, and extremely beautiful, from the mountains of Cappadocia, the ancient mosques of Istanbul, to the ruins along the Mediterranean coast.
I am looking forward to watching how the country navigates its position along the traditional East-West divide in the international political community, and how it chooses to handle the various domestic issues it is facing, with the military, women and gay rights, and with ethnic minorities.
Jasmeet Sidhu is a graduate of Peace and Conflict Studies at the University of Toronto. She worked for the Star in the radio room last summer, and writes a blog for the Star on climate change, where she covered the UN Climate Change conference in Copenhagen. In mid-June she will join the Star's summer intern program. Follow Jasmeet on Twitter.
3 weeks 4 days ago
It is available at online booksellers such as Amazon and Barnes&Noble.
To my knowledge, it is the only book in English on the topic of the Hemshin, or Islamicized Armenians of Hamshen:
Also, could you please put me in contact with the Turkish Imam of Hemshin origin?
3 weeks 5 days ago
My late father-in-law, Mehran (Hovsepian) was born Altebarmakian in a town he called Ereyle in the province of Konya in Turkey. He was born in 1914 and his family was not subjected to deportation thanks to his father’s – Hovsep’s - business partners who were Turks. His younger sister was born around 1917 in the same town.
However, his father died not much later due to illness. In early 1920’s, my father-in-law’s mother realizing they are the only or one of the few Armenian families remaining in Ereyle moved the family to Lattakia Syria to be close to her sister’s family. It is in Lattakia that my mostly Turkish speaking father-in-law was taught Armenian, under the tutelage of a famous Armenian writer, Armen Anoush. My father-in-law thus grew up in Lattakia and lived in Beirut as well.
While they were in Beirut, the Turkish family who were my father-in-laws’ father’s business partners made an effort and came to Beirut to look for them and tracked down my father-in-law’s family consisting of his mother, brother and sister for a reunion for old time’s sake. Thus my wife’s paternal grandfather is buried in Ereyle – Turkey. I have always been curious as to where Ereyle is in the district Konya. Ereyle may be what my father-in-law remembers the name of the city or town he was born in as he left at a young age. I will appreciate if you would find out about Ereyle or a town with similar sounding in Konya and let me know of its whereabouts.
Google has not been of help to me in this regard.
Thank you
3 weeks 6 days ago
To contact your relatives in Beirut, you have to provide your name, email address, their names. Perhaps a Keghart subscriber would recognize them. At one time there were more than 150,000 Armenians in Lebanon. The number is less now because of emigration. You can also trace them through Church records--birth, weddings, funerals, etc. Your best bet is to contact the Cilicia Catholicate in Antelias, Lebanon, a suburb of Beirut. Google them for their address. Good luck.
3 weeks 6 days ago
I recently found out that a sizable portion of my maternal relatives are voluntarily converted Armenians from Akbez, Cilicia, while the rest of my non-convert relatives had gone to Beirut. My great-grandfather from my maternal side was an Armenian Ottoman land registry officer in Aleppo. Although I am Turkish and Moslem, I would like to find my relatives in Beirut, to discover what has been lost of our family's memory.
3 weeks 6 days ago
Reparations and Restitution Not Reconciliation.
3 weeks 6 days ago
4 weeks 4 hours ago
Somehow Chauvinian had eluded me as an Armenian family name. It is said that our last names refer to a trade, region, a physical feature, a prominent person, etc. I could not relate the Chauvinians to any such source. It would not be, I thought, in reference to chauvinism, which according to Wikipedia primarily means “an exaggerated, bellicose and a blind belief in national superiority and glory.” Chauvinism is not an Armenian word. Then again, who knows? Our Cilician kings were “Lousssinians”. Of course I meant to say Lusignan, who also hailed from France much like Mr. Chauvinian.
As to Avedis or his likes, how I wish one of them became the measuring stick in one of those “Little things like Nobel Prizes, for instance". I mean, we all would have been genuinely proud. Would any reader say otherwise?
4 weeks 22 hours ago
Very well said. Here is another anecdote about Khatchadourian . When I was student in Geneva, Switzerland in the early 1960s he visited and gave a concert in Geneva. The very intellectual newspaper Journal de Geneve wrote an article about the "RUSSIAN " composer. Of course I sent them a letter and explained that he is Armenian, he should not be called a Russian but a Soviet citizen.
I did not hear any retraction.
4 weeks 1 day ago
1. I didn't think it was funny--and not because I consider myself an Armenian patriot.
2. It was old hat. There was no new twist or perception.
3. The writer took forever to get to the point.
4. The ending petered out.
5. Chauvinism is a natural and necessary defense mechanism of minorities--racial, religious, gender, etc. Experience has demonstrated that if a minority doesn't insist that it exists, that it contributes to the "greater society", the ruling/majority society will push it beyond the fringe to extinction and appropriate the minority's contributions. From countless examples, let one suffice. Thirty years ago I bought an album titled "Great Russian Composers." Among them was Aram Khachaturian. If we don't repeat to ourselves and to others that Khachaturian is Armenian, nobody would. The album also featured Caesar Cui. He was Lithuanian, while Borodin was Georgian.
6. Chauvinism is not just a minority monopoly behaviour. Even powerful nations can be "accused" of it, with the USA sitting in the driver's seat. Despite its millions of contributions, the USA makes every effort to shamelessly and greedily appropriate, assimilate the contributions of various racial/ethnic/national groups as its own. Hundreds of Canadian actors, for example, have gone to Hollywood for fame and money, yet you never hear that Dan Aykroyd, Jim Carrey, Lorne Greene, Raymond Burr, William Shatner, Yvonne de Carlo, Glenn Ford, Norman Jewison, Rich Little, Raymond Massey and hundreds other Hollywood luminaries are Canadian. Meanwhile, Canada and Egypt claim Atom Egoyan as their own.
4 weeks 1 day ago
4 weeks 1 day ago
While above news is heartening and encouraging, as I indicated earlier... to get our Armenian Bar Association involved and join forces with said law firm, it is regrettable that news broadcast from RoA TV channel(s) describe it as being a class action suit by the entirety of the Diaspora. It was clearly pointed out by the said law firm that it was on behalf of two plaintiffs--one from NY, the other LA.
Such incorrect newscasts create misgivings, to say the least. The persons editing the news items on Yerevan TV stations should read carefully the original disclosure by the authors and then telecast them. This ought to apply to all such news from Diaspora to the fatherland
G.P (an activist)
4 weeks 2 days ago
This article became educational for me as well. I also had not heard of the Herero Genocide neither of Whitaker Report. I quote from Wikipedia : “In 1985, the United Nation’s Whitaker Report recognized Germany's attempt to exterminate the Herero and Nama peoples of South-West Africa as one of the earliest attempts at genocide in the 20th century. The German government apologized for the events in 2004.” The Whitaker Report can be read on line. It is about the prevention and punishment of the crime of genocide and is named after the author.
4 weeks 2 days ago
The trouble with genocide victims is that we compete – by means of superlatives like first, most, cruellest and other “st”s – for the honor of being the most relevant, to the point of ignoring - or even sabotaging - others’ quest for recognition, instead of joining hands to effectively tell human society of all the horrors of the past century or so.
4 weeks 3 days ago
Very funny indeed!!
4 weeks 3 days ago
4 weeks 3 days ago
This and the previous ones conducted and won by aforementioned attorneys Kabateck and Geragos and Yeghiayan, may hopefully encourage the ABA (The Armenian Bar Association with a membership of 500) to take real Action for the total loss of those Armenians evicted from ancestral lands, real property as well as riches confiscated by Ottoman Turkey. There is no statute of limitations on such Claims.
It is only a question of time when the ABA will join forces with above said group and carry forward our demands.
4 weeks 3 days ago
4 weeks 3 days ago
4 weeks 4 days ago
The US will never acknowledge the genocide because it has swept away the history of its own American Indians.
4 weeks 4 days ago
4 weeks 5 days ago
Do we know how many Armenians practice Christianity?
Is it being Christian to attend church "zadigeh zadig", or when we are in trouble to say "Ya Hissous" or to cross the dough when making bread ..and so on?
To my knowledge the Hashemites too practice some of these traditions.
4 weeks 5 days ago
I am sure few of us have read the full text of the International Court of Justice (ICJ) decision re Kosovo and Serbia. Someone who has is Milan Markovic, New York-based lawyer and teaching fellow at Temple University in Philadelphia. In Toronto's Globe and Mail (July 31), he wrote an article ("What the Kosovo ruling means for Canada:trouble"), where he said, "What the court [ICJ] did find was that secessionist groups are not obligated to respect the territorial integrity of the country from which they are trying to secede. Nor are they prohibited from unilaterally declaring independence against the will of that country..."
The above, of course, is good news for Artsakh, especially since Artsakh and Nakhichevan were illegally wrested from Armenia and given to Azerbaijan by Stalin to appease the Turks and to keep Southern Caucasus off balance on a permanent basis.
4 weeks 5 days ago
4 weeks 5 days ago
Hovann Simonian’s lengthy article lumps up issues that are real, yet not necessarily linked. His assertion that the articles relating to the “Turkified, Kurdified and Islamicized” Armenians “do not appear to take into account the opinion of the very people concerned” is not true, as far as I am concerned.
No one is pointing or can point a gun to these “very people” if they themselves do show an innate desire to return to their roots. It is apparent, though, many do seek their roots and in my view, we should welcome them whether the Armenian core is melting away or not, or whether the Mekhitarian Order is in state of bankruptcy or not, or whether the Armenians in Lebanon attend non- Armenian schools or not and so forth. It seems Simonian is implying that our response to these “very people” should be: Hold on, stay where you are, we have issues here we need to take care of before can devote the time and energy to you. I do not find that response productive and right. Whether it is one Muslim or many, the issue of Islamized Armenians brings a historical reassessment of what constitutes being an Armenian. Since King Trdad converted and became Christian and ordered the nation to do the same as our historian Movses khorenatsi relates, being an Armenian and Christian have been one and the same. Some historians claim that King Trdad’s conversion was not necessarily driven by religious considerations only. It became a means for the King to rid the kingdom of the undue influence of the pagan priesthood and make temporal power dominant in the religious affairs of the country. To this day our Catholicos is not elected solely by a college of bishops or archbishops, but with the participation of the laity. The Catholicos occupies the St. Gregory’s Throne by the “will of God and election of the people”. At the dawn of the 21st century a historical development faces us, that of Muslim Armenians, which may or may not color the Armenian core, whether the later is melting away or not.
4 weeks 6 days ago
Definitely you have focused on what really matters.
I agree with your letter 100%.
Best regards from an "active" friend of Artsakh.
Migirdic MIgirdicyan
4 weeks 6 days ago
4 weeks 6 days ago
Dear Dr. Abrahamian,
Regarding Karabakh, I have no doubt that the superprostitutes (no offense, but prostitutes have incomparably more dignity) will trample on all the rights and wishes of the people of the land. They will even be willing to exterminate whole nations for their interests. What do you expect of such states when they are prepared to sacrifice thousands of their own ciizens for the sake of creating an excuse for intervention here and there? I have not eaten my brains with cheese to believe that 911 or the Moscow bombings were the work of Al-Qaeda or Chechen rebels. Even if by some miracle Azerbaijan and Turkey are pressured to accept the reality of Karabakh, how long do you think their recognition will last? I am sure that as soon as they feel the moment is in their favour, they will put aside all the treaties and fulfill what they have been dreaming of for a thousand years: Wiping out all non-Turkic nations on the lands Turks have invaded. In my view, we have nothing to lose. It's an existential matter for us. I am sure that their appetite will not end upon swallowing Karabakh. The more you give the more they will demand. It has been like that for ages, and I have no reason to believe that it will be any different in the future.
The only thing that could make them and their "super" friends think twice is our capacity to generate havoc and inflict serious pain. That's where we should focus all our efforts. We should make it clear to them that in our addition to the military, our primary targets would be the interests of the international whores--the petroleum and gas infrastructures. I do not look at the Azerbaijani people (except its blood-sucking elite) as enemies. I feel sorry for them since they are pawns in this dirty game and as usual whenever hostilities break out ordinary civilians suffer most. If things turn bad, the elite has its fortunes safely tucked in banks abroad and is always prepared to flee.
What concerns the so-called international community is our capacity. They can repeat the Turkish proverb "Sen salla bashini; ben bilirim ishimi" (wave your head as much as you like; I know what I'm doing). They kill millions of people around the world to rob their resources, but blandish slogans of freedom, civilized values--democracy, human rights and other BS. This is their mode of action. If they care for justice, let them come and face us on the field, instead of the poor Azerbaijani soldier who does not know what he is fighting for and who will end up as the loser in all cases.
A. Z. Davidian MD
Stepanakert-Yerevan
5 weeks 1 min ago
It is not too late. The Republic of Armenia and the Armenian Diaspora should join forces in presenting our case to the international community,
community, governments and the UN.
Also of utmost importance are the steps to be taken for the re-population of the liberated territories, including NK and Armenia proper. In my article I dwelt upon the establishment of a "National Investment Trust Fund" which would spur the relocation of over a million Armenians who have left NK and Armenia in search of work. These people will return only if a well-organized repatriation is in place, and with ample sources.
Since we are continuously hammered by talk that NK is the main issue (Himnahartz), the the impression is left that Armenians are ONLY concerned with the outcome of the NK conflict. It's time to wake up and tie the issues together and then proceed, lest the politicians mentioned in your editorial think/imagine that we will not react appropriately.
5 weeks 16 hours ago
5 weeks 21 hours ago
PS - What's the opposite of winning friends and influencing people? ...being ignored. Haven't we seen enough of that? But, why should there be only vile misinformation or silence about Armenians in Turkey today?
Why do Armenians think that Turkey or the US Congress deserve the final word about Armenia and the Armenians? Shouldn't the first Christian nation on earth be scripting her own identity and future and broadcasting it wherever she sees fit?
5 weeks 23 hours ago
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my email.
Unfortunately, I can't reply because your email is incomprehensible.
5 weeks 23 hours ago
I think if you knew Archbishop Torkom Manoogian as well as I do, you would never ask such a question!
You question does not dignify a further response.
5 weeks 1 day ago
To Joyce, When, as you say, Torkom supposedly said the Jews were the only people capable of following the commandments, was that before or after he was spit on?
5 weeks 1 day ago
Although the core of the problems in Isreal are between Jews and Palistinians...the real story goes way beyond this.
Two months prior to 9/11, I was having dinner with a friend here in NYC who was a VIP at the United Nations. This very subject of Israel and the Palestinians came up when I asked her what the pulse on the situation was via the U.N. She said, "If the Western world thinks that this problem is only about those two groups of people, they are mistaken. The true threat toward us is the 'whole Arab' world". We all know what happened shortly thereafter and has not ended there.
Further to this, I came across the following article that just appeared in the Jerusalem Post, 7/19/10 entitled the Zionist Imam. You may go to that article via: http://www.jpost.com/ChristianInIsrael/Blogs/Article.aspx?id=181905
The Christian world is not threatening the Jews. Quite the contrary. The support of the Christian world, that I have mentioned, is a very powerful force for the Jews. It is the tsunami, which is building as support for the Palestian's by the Arab world, most particularly the Moslem Arabs.
As for the beginning of this conflict...I have been attending Torah classes for 4 years. It is one of many biblical classes I have seriously participated in over the last 15 years, with the intent of learning from various teachers and scholars about the contents of the bible. Thus far, my experience in those classes has shown me that the conviction of the Jews about their place in Israel has 'everything' to do with what has been written in the Torah.
Whether the Torah or the Bible or the Koran is or is not documented history...a great many people live and die by it. That, to me is what makes it a key factor in this entire complex puzzle. Being too academic about the situation has nothing to do with the reality.
If you believe that the Jews where not God's chosen people and it is racism...you might check with some high-ranking Christian leaders to ask their opinion on the subject. Without question we are all God's children, but at the time of this designation, as I was told by His Beatitude Archbishop Torkom Manoogian, Armenian Patriache of Jerusalem, the Jews were the only group of God's people that were suitable enough to accept God's Commandments.
5 weeks 1 day ago
I was in Istanbul for the first time this past April.
I felt at home and alienated at the same time. It is an odd, but expected feeling.
I noted that half of the people I saw in the streets looked somewhat Armenian. It made me wonder how many others are there like Nureddin Simon. How many Turks have Armenian bloodlines?
Great story. Thanks for sharing.
Mark
5 weeks 1 day ago
Your comment is so pethatic that it does not even deserve a response, but I will respond just to educate you. Obviously your government has succeeded to brainwash you with lies. The "tons of physical evidence" you are talking about, are actually Armenian mass graves. But don't take my word for it; just do a DNA check. If Armenians massacred Turks, why didn't they stay? If they had, half of Turkey would be populated by Armenians today. Furthermore, the Young Turks first drafted all young Armenian men (ages 16 to 60), a total of 300,000 men. They assigned these men what was called the "amala capu" (labor camps) and made them dig their own graves and buried them alive. Then they confiscated all weapons including kitchen knives from Armenians and drove the elderly, women and children to the Syrian desert to perish. So if all the young men were drafted and killed and the government confiscated all the weapons, how did the Armenians massacre the Turks?
5 weeks 1 day ago
5 weeks 1 day ago
Do I understand that the Armenian religious community of Istanbul is divided over a difficult ecclesiastical matter leading one faction to invite secular government intervention from Turkish authorities? Yes, this seems strange, but is it actually blatant interference on the part of the Turkish government and a violation of Armenian rights? Or is it merely routine ecclesiastical politics which often feels like mayhem? Surely, as the author suggests, an ecclesiastical authority (or two) must also be consulted and the Armenian church must be better prepared to manage its own ecclesiastical affairs internally. But should the church not approach this through open debate in the spirit of Christian harmony rather than insinuating an international incident?
5 weeks 2 days ago
At least, she said "Maybe you are right" and didn't start kicking and screaming, like many Armenians would imagine based on their demonised stereotypes of Turks. There are tons of evidence (both physical and academic) of massacres that Armenians committed against Muslims in the course and aftermath of WWI, but not a single Armenian would even consider the possibility of that being true and say "Maybe the massacres were indeed mutual."
5 weeks 2 days ago
Perhaps the message behind this editorial is that Armenians want to learn how to win friends and influence people. If little success is to be found on Turkish streets or in the halls of Turkish or American governments, perhaps more success in this area might be found on the air waves or in cyberspace. But as very real and undeniable as the pain, anger and calls for repatriation are, how useful could these things be in addressing the matter at hand? Should we not be open to suggestions?
5 weeks 3 days ago
I am afraid you have parsed my words incorrectly, and unfortunately, with the intent of misrepresenting my position. All I say to you, sir, is that if you insist on generalizing an entire culture by a handful of pithy, hurtful, debasing comments then you are contributing to the perpetuation of hatred in this world --pure and simple. I wonder what you think about Turks in general? Do you see them subhuman as a whole? Do you feel that they ought to be sent back to the Altai Moutains, or better yet, be totally eradicated? Because if you feel this way (and I suspect you do deep down in your wounded heart) then I wonder if you think the Germans ever deserve redemption for what they did?
As for being a propagandist, I can assure to you I am not. Nowhere in my comments to you (or to others) did I imply anything other than asking for civility and respect for people that are not your own. If you can detail for me the logical sequence of arguments that link this position with being a "cheap" propagandist then I will shut up and back down and yield to you, sir.
And since you are prying for my position, genocide did happen as far as I am concered. A nation, this nation, must step out of its denial and come to terms with what happened. Japan is another example in this regard as far as their misdeeds during their occupation of Manchuria is concerned. I believe the time is right for this to happen across the board and the events of 1915 top the list of matters to address.
So come to think of it, if I am a "cheap propagandist", as you so assiduosly stated then I will have to say that "yes" I am one, but I work for global love and reconciliation and not for any nation or state.
Get with it, man. It's a pure simple fact: hate begets hate.
5 weeks 3 days ago
To Umurhan, Umr or Han or whatever your name is. You are nothing but a cheap propagandist working for imperial Turkey. You can run but you can not hide. If you are hurt by these words, how would you feel if someone killed all your family? Or, worst, killed half your nation? That's what your ancestors did to the Armenians. So stop your cheap propaganda.
5 weeks 3 days ago
I have nothing to reconcile with Turks -- they are not my intimates that have somehow become estranged.
Armenians expect the return of their patrimony and to be compensated for their losses.
Even then it would not be enough.
5 weeks 3 days ago
I rest my case. I take back what I said about intellectuals. Obviously we can not have a dialogue with intellectuals either (Mr. or Ms. Umurham is proof of that). I was just stating the fact that the majority of the Turks were illiterate and he or she started making racist remarks.
What would he/she do if somone killed all of his/her family? Or, worse, wiped out half of the Turkish population? That's what happened to my grandparents and great uncles, and my only aunt was burned alive in a church. She was only 4-years-old. Your ancestors raped and killed my people and you have the indecency to call me racist? What would you call the people who murdered a whole nation? Humanitarians?
5 weeks 4 days ago
You may not care to reconcile but then what do you say to those in South Africa? Reconciliation had to occur not only between whites and blacks but also between all of the myriad tribes and sub-groups who also consider one another as the "other". So whatever it may be - unless you want to live in a world walled-out by hatred and misery, it is high time we reconcile or else the same sort of things like genocides and massacres will continue to happen.
5 weeks 4 days ago
We do care and there are lots of us out there trying to turn the tide. We are spreading the info in every way we can.
Do we want reconciliation or do we want a world full of walls and hatred? There is no longer any choice here and it is time we realize this as a single unified human race with many colors and fragrances.
Please do not generalize - it is hurtful and offensive.
5 weeks 4 days ago
I take issue with this statement of yours, Mr John Keusseyan,
"In order to have a dialogue with anybody, they have to have that mental/intellectual capacity."
To suggest by implication that Turks who grow up in Turkey lack the intellectual capacity to participate in self-reflective and critical dialogue is incredibly offensive and, I am sorry to say, racist. With an attitude like that of an angry child, you can never expect to make progress. If you are so willing to cast away an entire society with such simplistic generalizations then you should realize that you are participating in creating exactly the type of poisonous atmosphere that leads to groups killing groups.
Shame on you. And shame on you to say that the majority of the Turkish electorate are illiterate. This is a lie and hurtful.
The problems in Turkey are wide and deep and quite profound. These are being addressed one-by-one. Unless you believe in democracy-by-the-sword type of cultural "rehabilitation" then you and we must take on a patient strategy of education. The "Deep Mountain" approach is exactly the sort of thing that ought to be done.
Bravo.
5 weeks 5 days ago
How did the Armenian cause come to be downgraded to only genocide acknowledgment? Armenians after WW 1 and for a long time after asked for much more, as difficult as that has been to obtain.
Now all we want is a lousy acknowledgment of genocide? We Armenians are cheap dates.
5 weeks 5 days ago
The Turkish government knows that the recognation of the Genocide would tear the fabric of their society apart. I don’t care what Turkey or racist Turks recognize......too late for that.
5 weeks 6 days ago
You do your thing and I'll do mine and may they both benefit all mankind.
5 weeks 6 days ago
Dear Frank,
Would be great to hear from you.
Best,
Kathrin
5 weeks 6 days ago
You have nothing to reconcile with Turks. The Armenian state can and did reach out for normalization of relations with Turkey; it is not the job of Armenians to reach out, educate, reform, and play psychiatrists for Turks.
The last time Armenians reached out to the Turks in 1908, they went dancing in the streets of Adana, hugging Turks; only one year later they were all massacred.
Armenians can better spend their time reaching out to Armenians and help develop and reform Armenia.
" Serious reforms were first attempted during Ottoman Turkey's Tanzimat (Reorganization) period of 1839 to 1876. Pushed by Europe, Turkey declared measures, quickly proven ineffective, to safeguard the rights of its subjects, including Armenians.
6 weeks 10 hours ago
I am an Armenian and very proud of it; however, at times I feel ashamed that even a guy who has a PhD can be so uneducated and ignorant. This book is just Armenian propaganda. Azeris have a ver long history. Azeri means a fire in farsi. Go educate yourself for God's sake.
Azeris like us had their kingdoms and were indegenous people of Caucasus until they were taken over by the Seljuk Turks. Azeris were not even muslim. I feel sorry for lots of Armenians since they don't or don't want to lean other peoples' history. Get out of your 100 000 fake show off baptisms and learn to appreciate human culture.
Racism sucks. Hajoxutyun dzes
6 weeks 10 hours ago
Hurriyet is a bit too pro military and pro Ataturk conservative for my taste.
I prefer Zaman and it is easy to click through their pages. They have some
excellent correspondents with rather liberal views - and you can comment
on the articles as well.
6 weeks 23 hours ago
Yes we are not the Turks' psychiatrists nor their nannies. But I am an angry and have always been an angry homeless born in somebody else's land Armenian. For obvious reasons and only Armenians can understand me.
There is hardly a day when I have not explained to non-Armenians who Armenians are and what they've been through. Can I stop myself? I do not think so...The same virus, I've passed it to my children and I can very clearly see that this virus will pass to my grandchildren and until when? Until Turkey accepts it...
6 weeks 1 day ago
One would hope Turks would be moral enough to separate the emotional side from the issue. It wasn't their ancestors who were placed in death marches. It wasn't their ancestors who were killed, while the government took out the insurance policies on the Armenians for thesmelves. It wasn't their ancestors who were raped, battered, and killed whether woman, man, or child, just because of their bloodline.
In Turkey, Armenians are villified to such an extent, it implies that "because Armenians are barbaric bloody savages, they deserved to be slaughtered in a genocide" but then they add "--but that never happened."
Do you know what pain the Armenians go through? And all the billions Turks spend on anti-Armenian propaganda? We were mostly an artisan people, with some being able to rise to be doctors, poets, and musicians. Armenians were loyal and cheered for the Young Turks' rise to power, because they thought it would bring reform and greater equality. The Ottoman Empire mutating into the Turkish Republic (by a name change) was paranoid of our ethnic group, because of so many other groups that broke away to form their own countries, so when the stupid Armenians who lived in Russia decided to rebel (a very few), the Turks decided to end the Armenian question and the possibility of Armenians breaking off to form their own nation by killing every last Armenian they could find--even the children, so the kids would never grow up to want revenge (this was their reasoning, but a Christian background means to hate the sin, love the sinner, even if he did wipe out your race. It's terribly difficult, but it's what we believe at the core.)
Can you honestly tell a survivor in the face that his pain was imagined, that his father was never beheaded, that his mother was never stabbed in front of his eyes? By the Diaspora alone you should be able to tell that Armenians were forced out or snuffed out (killed).
And despite how Turks villify Armenians on a constant basis, my parents always taught me that each person is an individual, and to not blame all people for the crimes of the few, or the elite. I do not nor have I ever hated Turks. I only wish that feeling was mutual.
Armenians would never lie about a genocide to their own race. We have more honor than that. All we wish to do is to honor the memories of our fallen, but Turks keep tainting those memories by saying they were all false. Have a heart: accept the genocide happened. It's not like Armenians will ever get reparations. I don't want your blood money. Just by recognizing the Armenian Genocide, and ceasing the biased negative views of Armenians, it would be enough.
One question: why in Sam's name would recognizing a genocide be a disaster for Turkey. And about insulting "Turkishness," what does that even mean? The fact that Turks realize they are just as human as everyone else, and it's ok not to have a spotless record? The Armenian Genocide wasn't the first massacre of Armenians--the Adana massacres came before that, and the Sultan's massacres as well. The Genocide of 1915 was just the most wide-scaled one.
6 weeks 1 day ago
Annie wrote " The Turks have an urge for destruction and you can see this in their treatment of their citizens and in Cyprus too."
This sentence takes me back several decades when I was a teenager. We had a Turkish neighbour who was in the army during the Korean war. One of the few who came back in one piece. According to him there was a very old bombed out building in Seoul . The United Nation decides that they should demolish that huge building for whatever reason. They bring in bulldozers, winches , etc...whatever is needed. However, it takes longer than they thought it would take and the job dragged on and on.....Somebody (with knowledge it seems) says, " Bring in Turks, they know how to demolish" ...and indeed they bring a contingent of Turkish soldiers with nothing but picks and axes. Guess what...the whole building is flattened in 48 hours.
Such is the nature of the beast.
6 weeks 1 day ago
He was fluent in Armenian (a very encouraging fact and a big plus), fluent in English and French, very handsome, a graduate of AGBU Armen-Quebec school (Montreal), politically very mature, open and a scientific minded intellectual. Harout impressed me so deeply that I proposed him to come to Los Angeles and meet my students and the Armenian community. I am sure he'll impress all ages of Armenians especially the youth and encourage them to go into politics.
Canadian Armenians should be proud to have such a promising young politician in their community.
Teacher
6 weeks 1 day ago
As over half the countries of Europe, over half the States of America and all reputable historians have fully acknowledged the Armenian Genocide it is time to take the Armenian Genocide as a 'given' and act accordingly.
Ruth Barnett
6 weeks 1 day ago
The movie “Ghandi” is one of my favorite movies and I have watched it several times. In the salt mine scene, in the movie, scores of Indians along a long line, few on a row at a time walked steadily towards the salt mine gate to claim what is rightfully their own but were savagely beaten, row after row. But the procession went on and on and on. The American reporter witnessing the scene sent a dispatch over the phone and dictated what he saw. He concluded his dispatch saying: “Whatever moral ascendency west had, was lost. India is free!”
The Indians were following Ghandi’s philosophy of non-violence but that did not mean being passive. Its aim was to make the pain of colonial occupation of India evident to the mightiest force on earth then on whose realm the
sun never set. More than our being right, I believe, the average and every day working Turk should be aware of our genuine pain. Genocide is a burden on us which we wished we never were burdened with. My father and paternal
uncle grew up without uncles, aunts, grandparents or alike. Their father and their mother were the only orphaned genocide survivors of their immediate and extended families. The pain of my paternal grandparents must have been
so much that they internalized it and avoided the subject altogether and evaded my teenage inquisitiveness.
Genocide pained those who were forcefully uprooted, it pained the survivors, and it pains the descendents of the survivors. To me Genocide is not forcing acceptance of historical reality on the average and everyday working Turk burdened with his or her own problems to make ends meet. Genocide is foremost genuinely conveying the devastating human dimension of its ugly reality. Should we able to succeed in that with the Turkish masses, the historical reality, I believe, will unfold along.
Incidentally I recommend those who have not watched the movie “Ghandi” to watch it. To me it's one of the best
movies ever produced.
6 weeks 1 day ago
This is wishfull thinking. In order to have a dialogue with anybody, they have to have that mental/intellectual capacity. At the beginning of the 20th Century, the Armenians in Turkey (who represented about 15% of the population) had ten times more schools than the Turks, and the Kurds had none. This has not changed much. Still large majority of the Turks are illeterate. Also, majority of the Turks beleive that the Armenians massacred the Turks and not the other way around. Anybody that beleives this, certainly lacks the mental capacity of a normal human being.
We can probably have some kind of dialogue with their intellectuals. Not long ago, I had a conversation with a lady from Istambul who had a degree in Chemistry. She asked me where I learned to speak Turkish and I told her that my father was born in Urfa. She asked me if I had been to Urfa, and I said no. She said Urfa is a beautiful town and that I should go there. I told her, I could not go there because it would bring me bad memories. She said, what kind of bad memories? I told her that all of my father's family were killed and that he was left orphan at the age of ten. She asked, Who killed them?" And I told her that the Turks did it. She said "olamaz", that's impossible. Then I said ok, how do you explain the fact that there were over 3 million Armenians in eastern Turkey before 1915 and now there are no Armenians there. Did they all decide to pack there bags and leave their ancestral home of over 3000 years? She thought for a minute and said "maybe you are right". And this lady had a college education. How do you plan on convincing the mobs?
6 weeks 1 day ago
I do not go in for this sort of touchy-feely stuff, and I do not think it will work anyway.
Consider the fact that Turks in the US have plenty of access to genocide information but do not care, aside from a few intellectuals and historians. So what good will an Armenian TV station beamed into Turkey do? Do you think that a Turkish station beamed into Armenia will make Armenians like Turks?
The Armenian Cause is about reparations and land, not genocide acknowledgment alone. Hence, genocide information by itself is of little importance. The genocide was a goal of Turkey to get rid of Armenians because they were in the way. Turkey has not stopped pursuing this goal. Turks want to destroy Kurds too.
The Turks have an urge for destruction and you can see this in their treatment of their citizens and in Cyprus too.
Do you think that an Armenian TV station beamed into Azerbaijan will make it more likely that Azerbaijan will come to an agreement over Artsakh?
Nice ideas, but these things will not work.
6 weeks 2 days ago
We, "Friends of Hrant Dink", have on numerous occasions hosted Turkish jounalists, authors, academicians and political figures who have come to Harvard and other institutions in Boston. Aside from meeting with many local Turks, we have been able to open a dialog of respect and understanding. Many Turks have not been exposed to their history thus know nothing of the genocide. One prominent Turkish academician and journalist said he knew nothing of the Armenian Genocide until he was forty five years old. He, along with many other Turks, travels with a bodyguard provided by the government, for their acknowledgement of the genocide. Positive articles were written in prominent Turkish newspapers when they were introduced to the few remaining Armenian survivors, to whom they gave great respect. We look forward to having conferences and seminars to promote the legacy of Hrant Dink with those Turks who recognize the genocide. They in turn can reach out and educate those Turks who know nothing of the Armenian Genocide except what their government sponsored history expouses.
6 weeks 2 days ago
Shnorhakalutyun Harutyunin ir aznvutyan hamar. Shnorhakalutyun Hamo Moskofyani lriv hamozich varats zruyci hamar. Uraxali e Gegarti shnorhaliutyunn mez dardzenelu patvavor gortsum.
Mtorum Lragir - Aslamazyan A. K.
6 weeks 2 days ago
It is NOT the job of Armenians to "reform" Turkey, as desirable as that may be. We are not their psychiatrists or their nannies.
We are not related to Turks; and we are not even from the same family. So, what is there to "reconcile"?
For Armenians who cling to every word uttered by a Turk or for an artificial gesture by a Turk to exhibit reform: it is not your job. We have our own country – Armenia - to reform.
6 weeks 2 days ago
In this current digitized world where information knows no limits, the Turkish people are no longer trapped in what their country wants to feed them. Reaching the Turkish public is very easy nowadays through the internet. They are now learning the true history, as well as about what Armenians have felt since 1915, and it is only a matter of time until Turkey will be forced to admit and pay for its past crimes.
6 weeks 2 days ago
I support the strategy of reaching to the Turkish people directly bypassing their denialist government bodies.
Another venue would be the leadership and membership of the diaspora Turkish communities who are in regular contact with their kin in Turkey.
Even though we expect them to be more enlightened and "westernsized" my own experience has not been positive.
As members of Canadian ethnocultural organisations I have had discussions with some Turkish community leaders who while admitting that "yes many armenians were killed but your gangs killed also thousands of Turks."
It may be that the younger diaspora Turks will be more conscious and accepting of the overwhelming historical facts and support recognition and justice for the Armenian genocide.
6 weeks 2 days ago
Vartsket gadar Hamo. Asdvads oujt aveltsene.
6 weeks 3 days ago
Another way of reaching the Turkish public is by commenting on Turkish newspaper (Hurriyet for example) articles concerning Armenia/Armenians/Turkey published daily on the web. There are many Armenians who diligently read, comment and exchange ideas with Turkish readers who are mainly of the extreme right and deniers of the Genocide.
Regards
6 weeks 3 days ago
Thank You my Dear Brother from the States. May God Bless you too! Your comment made me burst into tears...It seems that our 35 years of struggle is giving fruits...
Hamo Moskofian
6 weeks 3 days ago
Amazingly the United States Government looks the other way when it comes to the matter of who resides in the holy land. America, since its inception, has a well documented record of how it treats indigenous peoples. But for America to take sides in this matter is blasphemous. No matter because as we Armenians are learning, our rights in Karabagh have nothing to do with western realities. We will get crushed in Jerusalem just as we will lose more of our historic homeland to expediency.
6 weeks 3 days ago
May God bless you, Hamo Moskofian, and the new family you presented to us. Please let the readers of Keghart know a bit more about you. You may have been baptized as Hamazasb, a legendary freedom fighter in his own right. May your revelations not be a curiosity for us but an awarness that we need to become more accepting in our midst not only to the direct bonds of Hrayr Djogkh or Serop Aghbyur who fired our youthful imagination at one time but also to the others who are connecting to their roots. I hope that they will find in us the support they deserve.
6 weeks 3 days ago
I am not knowledgeable on the technical aspect and the webmaster will look into the matter. From what I understand the system was overloaded on a couple of occasions when many readers clicked at the same time, specially when new items were posted. This caused disruption (not to mention hacking on a few occasions in the past). Some features were removed. I hope the webmaster reinstalls the counter.
Paregamoren,
Dikran
6 weeks 3 days ago
One of the features I liked about keghart was displaying of the number of readers of the article along with the number of readers who rated the article and the rating scale. The number of readers is not being displayed anymore. I am not sure if it is by design or is temporary glitch to be corrected. After all, the number of books sold catapults a book on the best seller list. I do not see any reason why the number of readers should not be displayed as well. In the long run, the number may indicate where anx in what type of articles the readers of Keghart gravitate to read. It is good information to have for it's own sake.
6 weeks 5 days ago
I could not agree with Lucine Kasbarian more, as Serzh and Nalbandian are both ready to sell our interests, be it our liberated lands in Artsakh,be it western Armenia, be it our mother language for foreign schools, this President and his team are a bunch of corrupt crooks ready to serve their foreign masters, or else their dirty dossier will be leaked to the world by his masters. They smell from their head.
6 weeks 6 days ago
A mon avie si tous les armeniens pensent a l'avenir de leur pays , l'armenie et le karabakh seront l'un des plus agreables lieux et espaceds a vivre ,les 2 lieux que l'homme desire y aller, comme le juif a fair avec son retour vers l'israel or la palestine. A mon avie si chaque individu donnera 1$ pendant un mois seulement ,et on c'est qu'il existe environ 11 millions armeniens dans ce monde, ce fait 120 000 000$ . Avec cette monnaie on peut progresser l'agriculture et par suite progresser l'economie de karabakh, faire augmenter la population car le peuple a besoins a main d'oeuvre, c'est le cas de chine pour cela les chinois sont devenus en nombre plus qu'un milliard.Et de cette maniere on gagnera conte la poverete et l'emigration:vers l'exterieur .le gouvernement devient un gouvernement vigoureux et sera capables a acheter des avions meme les plus chers, des element militaires.....et au cours des annees on transforme la nation d'une économie largement rurale à une économie principalement industrielle et urbaine.et karabakh sera l'un des nations le plus developpes,modernes,industrialisees et invitera les armeniens de diaspora vers la paradise du monde,cependant le monde sera oblige a le reconnaitre comme etant une partie non separable de l'Armenie car Karabakh sera un pouvoir economique,politique,militaire qu'on ne peut pas l'ignoreR!! LEs moyens sont possibles, les solutions devant nous ,seulemnt il faut revolter,il faut penser et par suite gagner ou arriver a notre but....:
6 weeks 6 days ago
This is an answer to the person, who said, let the president of Armenia travel to Jerusalem and show concern.
Remember both last 2 Armenian presidents who took money from Mormons, Christan Scientologist Church and Jehovah's Witnesses and allowed them to enter Armenia and practice. I hope you will get my drift.
6 weeks 6 days ago
In Principle, I support what you are trying to do. But, why are we re-inventing the wheel? We do have existing organizations whose charter is just what you are trying to do. The ANC comes to mind, who have offices/chapters all over the world. Instead of creating a new organization, which may or may not represent ALL ARMENIANS, why don't we work with these organizations?
In business we call this "distribution system". You may have the best product, but if you don't have a good distribution system, you won't be able to sell your product. So let us use all of our resources that is available to us. Thus the probability of success will be much higher. Let us forget old grudges (and get rid of some old farts who still hold grudges) and work together. And lastly, I would not trust the lawyers because they are in this to make money.
Remember the NY Life settlement? They settled it for peanuts! They are not good in math and they have no clue about PV/FV (present value/future value of money). The $2M in 1915, at 6% is worth over HALF A BILLION DOLLARS today and they settled it for mere $20M. "HYE JOGHOVOURT, KO MEYAG PERGOUTIUNE KO HAVAKAGAN OUJEEN MECHNE" Yeghishe Charents.
7 weeks 1 day ago
This guy is a true Superman! In such a short period of time he got the respect of many Canadian politicians and got promoted over and over again.
7 weeks 1 day ago
We should encourage every Armenian to reach similar positions, irrespective of their political affiliations. Armenian political parties should unite and support Harout and others by all means possible. The final rewards will be enjoyed by all Armenians!
7 weeks 1 day ago
2. Contrary to your description, the conflict is not a thousand year old. It began in 1917 with the colonian Britain's illegal Balfour Declaration which promised to Jews that Palestine would become their homeland.
3. Using the bible as a book of history serves no constructive purpose in an intellectual debate. And to continue to believe that Jews are the Chosen People of God is racism in reverse. What are Gentiles? Chopped liver?
4. Re the Nazis and the Holocaust, Israelis learned cruelty from the Nazis. They also learned racism.
5. It seems the Israeli government wants to turn the Christian part of Old Jerusalem into a Christian theme park (with some token Christians), which would enrich Christian-hating Israelis with money from naive, misguided or ignorant Christian tourists/pilgrims.
7 weeks 1 day ago
Joyce, I believe the wheels are turning. After all, one only has to look how Archbishop Torkom moved from the diocese back to the Brotherhood. Vehapar has a stong influence in these matters because many of the clergy are from Hayastan. I certainly hope that a replay is inevitable. Aside from that, the fundamental matter is the feeling of isolation in Jerusalem. What can be done about it? President Sargsyan should give up one of his quail expeditions and take a pilgrimage to the venerable sights in Jerusalem. It would do wonders for the community there and also raise the president's prestige. I do remember asking archbishop Torkom jokingly if he was going to ever retire before he went to Jerusalem. He told me he only answers to a higher authority. Love that man!
7 weeks 1 day ago
Best wishes and congratulations to Mr. Chitilian. We need more young people like him--Armenians who have a foot in both communities--Armenian and odar.
7 weeks 1 day ago
I think one needs to take as base the structure of the Armenia-Diaspora ...with traditional & new organizations represented in it & the non-afilliates or independents as consultants - a sort of World Armenian Committee with representatives from every corner & organization ...
7 weeks 1 day ago
Archbishop Torkom Manoogian is 93 years of age. His age is not in his favor to handle such circumstances at the moment nor are the dynamics of the situation.
The Patriarchate of Jerusalem is a separate entity and NOT under the jurisdiction of Etchmiadzin, therefore it would require changes to take place with the laws that govern the Armenian Patriarchate to have a new Patriarch selected under the influence of Etchmiadzin.
Further to this, only members of the Brotherhood of St. James can elect a new Patriarch and the laws are such, that the sitting Patriarch remains in office until he passes away.
I know both Archbishops of whom you speak. They both have their strong points Given my knowledge of their capabilities, I would lean toward Archbishop Aykasian for the following reasons: He has just completed his 2-year tenure as President of the National Council of Churches; He is multi-lingual; He is world traveled and knows many individuals of influence internationally; He is outstandingly gifted at dealing with people; He was born in the region-Turkey; He is smart and without question would know to immediately bring in the necessary business heads around him to handle the Patriarchate, the Israeli Government, the other primary/secondary Christian groups responsible for the Holy Sites as well as coordinate efforts with Etchmiadzin.
This is a very complicated situation to which I do not believe the current Patriarch has much he can do about changing the course of events. He, nor the Patriarchate are a government to be able to negotiate this situation with the Israelis.
7 weeks 1 day ago
I have spent time in Jerusalem, my first visit going back as early as 1966. It is probably the most intriguing and mysterious city I have been to throughout my extensive international travels.
It is very unfortunate that this unending conflict between the Jewish and Moslem people has continued for thousands of years. Part of me wants the struggle to end by letting the Jews have their Israel with the displaced Moslems finding home and futures throughout the Moslem world. Surely, there is enough land available for those countries to welcome their brethren.
The continual argument of whose land it is has no doubt been a major sticking point for thousands of years. If one accepts what the Bible says, then God did in fact promise the 'land of milk and honey' to His chosen. ONLY, there is one point that the Jews of the world may have chosen to overlook...they were promised this land by God, IF they adhered to God's Covenant.
Unfortunately, they have not...so should they, from a religious point of view, be entitled to this land? I say this without malice, as I also believe that many other religious groups have also failed to follow God's Covenant...as we all basically share the same Covenant with God. Or have I missed something?
What concerns me, at the moment, is the fact that the Israelis seem to have lost memory of their many trials and struggles. It wasn't that long ago that they were slaughtered at the hands of the Nazis with everything taken away from them. So the continual irritating point in my mind is 'why are they behaving in such an aggressive manner'?
I firmly believe that Jerusalem is the most important Holy Place for Christians, Jews and Moslems throughout the world, has with it a built in power for the state of Israel. If, Israel begins a campaign to eliminate this critical weapon in their arsenal...they will eventually cause their undoing.
Would the Christians, as an example, of the world be as deeply concerned about Israel if Jerusalem was wiped out of its Holy Sites? For those who strongly believe that Jesus will return in Israel, the fact remains is that Jesus can return anywhere He so wishes to do.
I strongly suggest that the Israeli government take a second look at what they are doing and discontinue on this path that might eventually have many of their supporters look upon them with less favor.
7 weeks 1 day ago
Way to go Harut! It's exhilarating to see a young person achieve so much in such a short time thanks to the youth. Kudos!!
7 weeks 1 day ago
Your suggestion is well taken. Thank you.
7 weeks 1 day ago
- WebEx, LiveMeeting or gotomeeting.
I understand the value of presence, but if that is difficult, let alternatives be used. Let technology help.
7 weeks 1 day ago
I guess something else should be proposed... like "Armenian Ascension"...
7 weeks 1 day ago
Very proud to see Armenians running and succeeding in political positions.
7 weeks 2 days ago
While we talk about three political parties, we should note that only one of them is active. The other two do little other than occasionally send emails and publish heavily subsidized newspapers. Oh yeh, they also hold annual picnics. One of them is on life-support system while the other has split up. Under these conditions, and not forgetting the huge mass of disenchanted (from political parties) people and non-partisan Armenians, WAN-Congress should be able to attract a great number of Armenians, if it enunciates its mission in a clear, comprehensive, and inclusive manner. I think WAN-Congress can use professional marketing assistance.
7 weeks 2 days ago
I don't know what the game plan is for WAN Congress. Do they want to move slowly, with lots of community outreach to ensure buy-in, or do they want to plough ahead, and by-pass the "establishment"? The latter is appealing if there is a large enough support base to draw on. But if not, then a piecemeal loooong-term approach is necessary, entailing all sorts of compromises. Not easy choices. Of course, hayasdan is going to raise an eyebrow too.... not to mention Turkey! In any case, let me know how things pan out.
All the very best
---------
It would be important for the initiative to have a mission and a vision, that is clearly articulated. That is not clear to me, beyond an abstract idea of representing Western Armenians. I think a clear set of objectives should emerge from the meeting. It helps to ask: what is the problem that the Congress wishes to fix?
2010 is not 1919. Historical points of reference might actually deter from its vision instead of augment it. I suggest to have a vision that is inspirational and future looking.
Similarly, no need to use divisive language such as corrupt leaders of Armenia. They are corrupt, all know it. No need to "cheapen" your mission by taking jabs here and there, at least in writing. People get inspired by forward looking "can do" ideas.
The issue of "representing" the diaspora, which seems to be at the heart of this initiative, is a bit of a red herring. Who represents whom? This can never be solved, short of a vote. Is a vote in the diaspora possible? I think not. Let's assume there is a vote; are you going to prevent hayasdantsis in LA from voting because they are not western armenians? I think representation issue can be solved by having a good idea, and having a number of people -- especially quality people -- coalesce around it. And being modest about it -- not claiming to represent "Western Armenians" but representing members of the organisation who come from... (fill in as appropriate...)
Preparing a legal case. This is dangerous because you could lose. I am not aware anything in international law that would favour Armenians at this stage. (Ara Babyan's stuff is pure myth!) The Genocide issue is all about politics, and the struggle should be about politics too.
I don't understand the Moscow connection.... (well, I do, from the money perspective, but how many western Armenians are there in Moscow?).
In terms of publicising the initiative, and hence generating support, you need professional communication strategy, a series of public events, charasmatic individuals -- men AND women -- and the whole 9 yards of "selling" ideas. This should not be an afterthought. Perhaps, from this perspective, you should even consider a different name. Western Armenian National Congress is too segmental (western), too talk shop (congress), and for those who are in the know, too backward looking (the idea of national congresses is passe).
It is too late at night, so I can't think of any clever alternative, but a name that conveys "future", "initiative", "dyanamism", etc. -- with a good catchy acronym! Communications can seem like a flippant thing for content and issue driven people, but heck, in the 21st century, you gotta listen to your Comms department!
These are some random thoughts to help with the critical feedback that you are asking for.
Yalla, kisher pari!
7 weeks 2 days ago
Stella S. Martirossian,
I can't argue with your faith, but I feel very sorry for your mind and soul. What a twisted message you want to share with us!
"As Armenians, if we want to be blessed by God and prosper, we must at all times stand by" Armenia and not what you are preaching.
After all what you have read in the article and the comments, you are indirectly telling that it's OK for Israel to confiscate Armenian lands. You call yourself a Christian. Where is your sense of Christian Justice?
7 weeks 2 days ago
God bless your mission.
7 weeks 2 days ago
It's very interesting that Stella S. Martirossian - see her comments - articulates a misconception and an ignorance whose consequences are real and have far reaching consequences as amply reported in July 5, 2010 issue of NY Times in an article titled “Tax-Exempt Funds Aid Settlements in West Bank”. Zealous Christian evangelicals donate to these tax-exempt funds for the very same reason articulated by Stella. For most of its existence, Jerusalem has been under Islamic rule. However, throughout those centuries the sanctity of Jerusalem was honored and its integrity kept intact. Not a single stone in Jerusalem was removed, or transplanted somewhere else. As a matter of fact for past 1300 years, the doorkeeper of the Holy Church Sepulcher, the site of the cru fixation, has been a Moslem family.
7 weeks 2 days ago
Here we go. What Martirossian writes is the essence of Zionist Christian ideology. I say ideology rather than theology because Christian fundamentalist religious tradition is manipulated by Zionists for political ends. These Zionist Christians ignore or are not aware that there is no room for them in racist Israel. They are not aware that Israelis are using the naive faith of fundamentalist Christians to advance the political and nationalistic aims of Zionism. It's a waste of breath to debate the issue with these drugged sheep: anytime you try to have an intelligent debate with them about this issue, they quote the bible. Circular argument. A dead end. A book of legends, pseudo-history, dubious miracles (autonomous pregnancy, people walking on water, one fish turned into a thousand, a man talking with Satan, the return of a man from the dead, and rise of another not only from the dead, but his flight to the sky--I guess there was less pollution then) is used as the ultimate proof that what they say is a verified historic narrative.
But it becomes irresponsible to ignore these simple-minded fundamentalist Christians because they--in their blind faith--support a racist, theocratic, militaristic, expansionist state which has stolen Palestine and continues to mistreat Palestinians, including Armenians. Note Martirossian says nothing about Palestinians or the plight of Armenians. I am sure she doesn't care--as long as Zionist Israel rules supreme. I am certain that if Christ appeared in Jerusalem today, he would be deported by Israeli goons as a lunatic--if not terrorist--Christian Palestinian.
7 weeks 2 days ago
When Catholicos Karekin visited Archbishop Torkom in February to bestow the Mesrob Mashdots medal on Torkom's 20th anniveresary in Jerusalem, he invited two members of the Brotherhood of St James to attend.. They were Archbishop Khajag Barsamian, Primate of the Eastern Diocese, and Archbishop Vicken Aykazian, the Diocesan Legate.
Both of the above archbishops are best known for their organizational strengths. This could possibly be a testing of the waters. Both Archbishops are 59 years old.
I certainly would not want to see a conflict of parties rear its head again such as what happened between Derderian and Nersoyan.
Lord give us strength!
7 weeks 2 days ago
Besides, at this juncture mean-spirited and corrupt clergymen might nurse an exaggerated sense of their power: they could believe they would be courted ($$$$?) during the eventual election "campaign." Perhaps the Vehapar can influence the outcome of the inevitable election by talking to the 15 St. James Brotherhood clergymen who serve in overseas parishes. To get elected, a candidate needs 22 votes. I don't know anything about the 10 clergymen from Armenia who are members of the St. James Brotherhood. One would assume that they could be influenced by the Catholicos in Holy Etchmiadzin during the election process.
7 weeks 2 days ago
As a bible believing Armenian, we must do what the word of God says. "I will bless those who bless you, and curse those who curse you". Genesis 12:3
As Armenians, if we want to be blessed by God and prosper, we must at all times stand by Israel and bless Israel, and pray for the peace of Jerusalem. The land of Israel was chosen and mapped by God, who are we to stand against God? Salvation is of the Jew. Jesus Christ our Lord is a Jew, to love the Jew and Israel is to love our Lord Jesus Christ, to hate Israel and the Jew, is to hate our Lord Jesus Christ.
7 weeks 2 days ago
I think it is great that this organization is adopting the name "Western Armenian". This term should not only refer to the fact that it organizes the (Western) Armenian Diaspora, but should also refer to the territory of Western Armenia itself which the WAN-C should actively claim as a way for Turkey to repair for the damages done to the Armenian nation.
A way to achieve this should be to gain support from non-Armenians as well, just like Zionism back in the days. However, contrarily to Zionism, we already have a dormant document (Sevres Treaty) that constitutes a legal basis for our claims.
All should be done is with the support and even participation of all traditional and experienced Diaspora organizations such as the ARF... If there is no support, then there is no point for WAN-C to exist because its aims are relatively similar to our traditional organizations.
7 weeks 2 days ago
Tsolin- I am truly disturbed to hear of your experiences. I have volunteered with Habitat, and now Fuller, for six of the last seven years. I am presently sitting in the Moscow airport waiting for my connecting flight to Yerevan. This will be the sixth team that I have led. My experiences have been very fruitful and gratifying. There are other U.S. based team leaders who have shared my experiences. It might be the fact that the Armenian Fuller affiliate is beholden to a U.S. based organization who audits their books. Each team member also fills out an evaluation at the conclusion of the trip. If you ever recover from your experience, please, please try siging up for a Fuller team. -Leo
7 weeks 3 days ago
Vrej, It's hard to believe that to be so since Torkom has had such close ties with Etchmiadzin. Can it be that there's a revolt against the archbishop? How times have changed! There was a time when Torkom was in the running for the top job. But then again, nothing surprises me anymore. I wonder whether this thick headedness is not just isolated to Jerusalem. Are there any westerners in the Brotherhood? Are there any non Russian Armenians in Vagharshapat?
The bottom line is the feeling of isolation in Jerusalem. Do those that still live there feel that they've been left to their own devices? It's just how the Armenians of Iraq must have felt when nobody would stand up for them. Knowing that Jerusalem has no moral support is akin to rubbing salt into the wound.
7 weeks 3 days ago
Dear Darwin, thank you for your suggestion. I have been told by a Jerusalem friend (so it's hearsay) that when Vehapar visited Jerusalem a few months ago, to help end the acrimony within the St. James Brotherhood, he was told by the members of the Brotherhood not to interfere in the affairs of the autonomous entity. A disapointed Vehapar took the first plane out.
7 weeks 3 days ago
Shavarsh, let the concern for Jerusalem and anywhere else our people have a presence, come from the highest authority. We don't need a visit from "Hillary" as a broker. Torkom came back to Jerusalem with the full blessing of Catholicos Vasken - bless his soul - so it's about time our Russian Armenian compatriots accept their responsibility - not just fund raising events - for all Armenians. We want leadership? Then let it come from our spiritual home. The diaspora has been waiting too long for a signal from Armenia.
Pope John Paul touched my heart along with the rest of the world by his association and pilgrimages to visit his people. Are Armenians less capable?
When Catholicos Vasken visited New York to inspire us over Karabagh, Armenians came by the bus loads. I never felt prouder.
Let Catholicos Karekin do the same. No clergy or anyone else can pilfer even one more inch of sacred land away in Jerusalem. Until that day comes, I will continue to pine for my people.
7 weeks 3 days ago
Without being critical of the ailing Patriarch Torkom Manoogian, I pray his successor makes his own accession a time of renewal, resurrection, and re-dedication for the St. James Brotherhood. Reading the editorial, I get the distinct impression that a long-overdue house-cleaning is in order. The word "garkazourk" comes to mind. Toss out the corrupt and immoral elements. In plain English: "Good riddance to bad rubbish." While an anti-corruption drive would not, by itself, resolve all the challenges of Armenian Jerusalem, it would be a great and inspiring start.
7 weeks 3 days ago
Many of the conferences and seminars that the Ministry is either sponsoring or participating in can competently be organized by NGOs. "Thankfully" there is no scarcity of them either in Armenia or the Diaspora. They keep on mushrooming by the day. One wonders who is financing them in Armenia where poverty is rampant, and thus cannot be supported locally.
7 weeks 3 days ago
Let me give you an example: The open air hall of Cinema Moscow (Kino Maskva) in Yerevan, an extremely popular edifice with residents, which had fallen into "seldom" use (whether or not out of any intentions, I frankly do not know), and which sits on, probably, THE MOST PRICEY lot in Armenia, was lately omitted, by the government, from the index of protected monuments, bypassing all legal procedures. The official explanation was ‘so that the holding company can give it as a “gift of no compensation” to the holy see for the purpose of building a church’ (obviously after demolishing the existing building).
It was also announced that the site was chosen by The Donor (whose identity is carefully being kept secret). An additional explanation, much repeated, is that in pre-Soviet times a church used to stand nearby (with no mention of the mosque next to it).
Many think that the alleged building of a church is just a pretext and soon facts like the lot’s disorientation, a shortage of funds for the other new church some 250 meters away, or something of the sort will pop up and the property will end up a business place (for the benefit of the “donor”).
Some have actually voiced it over the TV. The cabinet took its decision despite a report by the ministry of culture to the contrary; and government insists upon it, ignoring the professional views of most specialist and signatures of some 70 000 Yerevaners, petitioning The Catholicos, the President, and just about anyone, to spare the hall; and even the vote of the Public Forum (a nonbinding yet highly prestigious, elected, social body) against demolishing.
Some very high ranking officials of the church publicly called the (mostly young) activists “enemies of God” whereas all they say is ‘please build churches where there is a shortage (most of Armenia’s settlements) not in Yerevan’s CBD, where there are 5 (Surb Grigor Lousavoritch, Catoghike, Zoravor, Kond and Surb Sarkis) in a radius of less than 1200 Meters.’ It sounds very much like excommunication except that excommunicating 70 000 is not all that easy. Yet a property on Tumanyan and Abovyan streets is worth a try.
7 weeks 3 days ago
Let the president of Armenia visit the sacred Armenian sites in Jerusalem and show his concerns and the importance of its protection. He does travel all over the world and should stop being disengaged with his people. Let him visit San Lazarro and anywhere else there is an Armenian presence. By the same token, the Catholicos isn't chained to the compound in Etchmiadzin.
I, for one, have been waiting for leadership to come from Hayastan.
7 weeks 4 days ago
"So today, Lebanon is left with a dying language among the future generations."
http://notesfromamedinah.wordpress.com/2010/03/07/the-death-of-arabic-in-lebanon/
"English and French often replace the local dialect in conversation, especially among the urban youth, and one organization has launched a campaign to preserve Arabic in Lebanon."
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2010/02/28/101730.html
7 weeks 4 days ago
Dear Ms. Konyalian: The Turks suffered no particular "trauma" from committing genocide. Are we supposed to feel sorry for them? Give us all a break from such nonsense, please.
7 weeks 4 days ago
Put Jerusalem down as another example of collateral damage as an offshoot of the discord that has been fabricated by the diaspora. Somebody above wrote, "We must stand united and we must make ourselves heard over and over again." The Armenian diaspora can't even agree to disagree! Our religion and society work under the cover of a myriad of umbrellas. "No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine." John 15:4 When will Armenians learn that lesson? Who stands to profit from our discord? Certainly not us.
7 weeks 4 days ago
George Friedman is a soldier of the Empire. In the guise of balanced analysis, Friedman is doing the dirty work of good old US Imperialism. Since the Azeris have oil. are friends of Israel, and Turkey is a NATO ally, there's no way pen-for-hire Friedman would tell the truth. Talking of Caucasus Cauldron, it's being fueled by petroleum-rich Sultan Aliev and US-backed Georgia--the latter oppressor of Armenian and other minorities in Georgia. This side of the ocean, a truth-telling reporter Octavia Nasr was jist fired by CNN, just like other Western reporters who hace dared report the truth.
7 weeks 4 days ago
Thank you for your article concerning Armenians of Jerusalem. The conflict within the clergy is control of the Brotherhood of the seat of St James. Money and Sex has been the issue during Yeghish's reign and it is still the same.
Torkom should have shaved some of the clergy, but he did nothing and some clergy are taking advantage of the situation.
You need the Diaspora Armenians' pressure on the Pariarchate to include lay civilians with experiance, education and and no personal interest. The fact that there is a Bank account in USA for the Armenian Patriachate's use with the condition that AGBU has placed that a civilian accountant will see that the money is spent correctly , and not fro the personal pockets of some clergy.
In the past, a cvilian Kaghakasti Armenian was always a member of the Synod. The seat of the local Armenian was neglated by Yeghishe and Tokom also did not want any civilian to be part of the Synod.
7 weeks 4 days ago
7 weeks 4 days ago
There has to be a much bigger than life approach to this never ending conflict which is always, systematically won by untrustworthy Israel. They have the U.S. What do we have? Europe?... We wish.
7 weeks 5 days ago
What is it with us the Armenian People? We have been suppressed by every bloody country you can name. USA pressuring for the stinky ratifications, Turkey threatening again and again after 95 years, Azeris wanting to grab Artsakh and declaring war with us, and worst of them all Israel not sharing the holocaust and genocide with us, and now kicking Armenians out of Jerusalem. We cannot go on like this and we must put an end to all this injustice - enough is enough for Armenia and Armenians. We either succeed or vanish forever.
We have survived this much and I think we can survive forever but we have to fight back against all odds. Kurds are doing it and their numbers are similar to ours - I say an eye for an eye and a sword for a sword. That’s the only way to be. There is no justice in this world, countries are all too busy for their own geopolitical interests and revenues, and who cares about us.
We must stand united and we must make ourselves heard over and over again.
7 weeks 5 days ago
This article is biased and contains deliberate misrepresentations which can disinform a reader, not knowledgable with the history of the region. Theoretically it is not neutral, as it is inspired from neo-realist approach which favors a status quo stand. This means that Nagorno Karabakh is part of Azerbaijan (in Western Azerbaijan). Any solution must be applied within the former soviet-era administrative borders, which corresponds to Azerbaijan`s ìnternationally recognized borders. Problem is solved according to the internal self-determination, with new distribution of powers between the centre (Baku) and the region (NKR).
7 weeks 5 days ago
Ay Minas jan Moskvayum 1 100 000 hay e aprum , bayc hayeri grats lragirn u girqn vacharelu 3 qgraiusi metr teg chi tglis ghgam dashnakcakan trrn Erevan Plaza hskayakah eazmahark xanutum, chbayats es dimeci Ambogj spyurqin: Pordzir inqd el hay gtnes u imac tas: Spyurqn petq e iren Hay pahi, vor Erevanum bun deats tshnaminrtn u nranc pnakaleznern chvochncha]nen hayutyann u jhud Lenini kchatats Hayastann: Jpta u gorts el ara:
7 weeks 5 days ago
Chepechyani hushn hianali grvats usaneli e amen mekin i husheri mardkanc u patmutyunneri chisht gnahatmamb i shah ekogin: Misht urax u hajog or ev grogin, ev hratarakogin ev kardacogin !
Lragir "MTORUM" - Aslamazyan A.K.
7 weeks 6 days ago
Thank you for your comments about the state of the St. James Brotherhood. As a former Jerusalemite, I have noted another challenge to the Brotherhood: due to the difficult post-1967 years (the repressive Israeli Occupation decades) Brotherhood numbers have declined. As a result, the clergy devotes its time wholly to the guardianship, protection, and management (in addition to participating in church services) of Church properties.
There was a time, long ago, when St. James Brotherhood members did research and published books about our Church history, national history, illuminated manuscripts, and Armenology. Some even wrote poetry. Now the almost-defunct St. James Press used to publish the SION (quarterly) in those halcyon days.
7 weeks 6 days ago
Well, I am a Turk and I have no animosity whatsoever towards any Armenian. I guess this goes to show that most of you guys are wrong.
7 weeks 6 days ago
Whether church leaders are submissive and compliant to corruption, the answer is a BIG YES..YES..and again YES....Not only they are compliant they are also practising corruption and thievery.
I know a few wealthy individuals who have donated extremely big amounts to Etchmiadzin for specific purposes. Nothing has happened and the money has just vanished and no accounting is given. The church nowadays , instead of taking care of the poor, the needy, the sick, is trying to enlrage its real estate holdings....for what....Why build new churches in Yerevan when the country needs schools, hospitals? Why built a 15 million Church complex in Los Angeles when that money could be used for Armenian orphans?
I am disgusted.....
8 weeks 10 hours ago
Mr. Aghjayan's article does nothing more than validate Ms. Kasbarian's suspicions. I was not present at ALMA. Yet having read both articles I can't help but wonder what are the answers to her questions. Why such an empty, immature and accusatory rebuttal to an honest, well-argued analysis by Ms. Kasbarian?
She has introduced many valid points that deserve answering. The abiding question she poses is: Who is really representing the Armenian diaspora and what is his/her agenda?
It seems that with the exception of a few, Armenians are willing to give up so much for so little in return. Do Armenians truly feel that Turkey can be their partner when Turkey is becoming richer, stronger, more arrogant and obnoxious? Are the Armenians so deprived of attention that they are falling for the poisonous caress?
8 weeks 11 hours ago
It really is wonderful. Congratulations!
Kourken
8 weeks 16 hours ago
8 weeks 18 hours ago
c) Here are the Tenkerians whose names and addresses are in our Chork-Marzban mailing list:
Anahid Tenkerian
5334 Loma Linda Avenue, #1
Los Angeles, CA 90027
Manoug Tenkerian
7040 Haskell Avenue, #202
Van Nuys, CA 91406
Mihran Tenkerian
6614 Jamieson Avenue
Reseda, CA 91335
Minas Kojayan
8 weeks 18 hours ago
There are many braches of Majarians from Armenia to Lebanon and US. I'll do my best to find more information by asking another Sarkis Majarian of Glendale, California. He is in printing business and a reporter; his sister's name is Araxi, brother Kevork.
Dr. Hagop Majarian was a dentist in Beirut; his son lives in Beirut.
Majarian Dikran moved to Armenia in 1947 with his family. His wife Yester was my grandmother's sister. They all passed away. Majarian Dikran's son Kevork moved to US, he too passed away 20 years ago. His sons Dikran and Hagop and daughter Yester live in Los Angeles and I see them often.
Now, I have to ask them about your branch and hope I will be helpful.
Minas Kojayan
8 weeks 23 hours ago
ET
8 weeks 1 day ago
The IOC (International Organizing Committee) of the proposed Western Armenian National Congress has at its disposal a legal team that collects the type of information that you have provided. A database is being prepared for future legal actions when the time and circumstances permit.
I would strongly suggest that you get in touch with them, provided the deed is authentic.
Cordially yours,
Dikran Abrahamian
8 weeks 1 day ago
I have watched the system in Armenia even corrupt those we thought were incorruptible reformers who tried to change the system from within.
8 weeks 1 day ago
My grandfather Hagop Tenkerian was born in Dort-yol. For sure there had to be a relation with Manouk Tenkerian.
Tenkerians are rare but tough. My recollection from what my grandmother used to say is that after they relocated
in Iskendaroon, my grandfather used to go back to his land and home at night .......always came back.
We also have a deed in his name locating his land, house and orange trees. Please we need to preserve this piece of document as it is deteriorating. Can you help? Thank you for this rich research.
8 weeks 1 day ago
I'm sick of your ... Stop pretending that you are an Armeinan....
8 weeks 1 day ago
I have been to some 100 countries and seen what poverty can do to a society--no matter the religion, ethnicity or history.
Poverty can drive people to lying, cheating, stealing, prostitution, crime, and even to murder.
Your broad-brush condemnation of the citizens of Armenia is cruel, infantile and unrealistic.
I see you emailed your poison-pen letter from Georgia. I hope you are enjoying living in that treacherous state which, according to international surveys, is far more corrupt than your homeland.
8 weeks 2 days ago
I always wondered why the destruction of the Buddha figures in Afghanistan elicited a brisk response spearheaded by the USA. The answer came a couple of weeks ago when Afghanistan was reported to have incredible wealth of minerals (especially lithium).
I assure you that if Nakhichevan had anything similar, the "industrial wing" of NATO would have sent a "liberation" force.
8 weeks 2 days ago
Pratique très commune dans un pays tourmanté, la France a connu les même souci pendant la révolution.
Espéront qu'une solution durable soit trouvé, car l'identité d'un peuple est profondément liée à son passé donc a son patrimoine.
Au dela de la perte d'identité qu'engendre la destruction du patrimoine, se déssine des générations de gens perdus sans racine qui est la seconde vague a attendre en cas "d'oublie" volontaire ou pas de la concervation..
Cordialement
8 weeks 2 days ago
...Nowadays it is all about correct timing, timing which can come once every 50 years or even 100 years. In fact our neighbours who are big giants are going to pass through a big storm and all we have to do is steer the wind in our direction to profit ourselves.
I sincerely hope that our army will eventually plan a massive attack and gain land in the aftermath of a storm cloud because this policy of defensive attrition does not work and in the end we will have to face a far bigger challenge.
I hope to hear some comments, especially from the military.
Regards
8 weeks 2 days ago
But think the other way round, living in a country that has not seen plenty, and I mean by plenty not just dollars and a few cars but plenty in the sense of financial and economic security. You were unfortunate to meet nasty people but as much as there are nasty people there are good people as well. The way around this stupidity is to work as foreign Armenian conglomerates and not to run into trouble yourself, because as I said you are a good bait and they just used you.
Do not despair as our race has an Armenian honest face and a soviet corrupt face which still needs a lot of time to change.
8 weeks 2 days ago
Over the course of 10 years, I volunteered my summers to work with a building organization (not Fuller) in rural Armenia. Diasporans worked closely alongside paid natives who, in turn, took advantage of our brotherly love. They stole anything that was not nailed down, including our building tools and belongings (we brought very little that was flaunt-worthy). Many lied with great finesse.
These episodes were among the most disturbing of my life. After many failed attempts on my part to 'lead by example,' I have concluded that Armenia needs the kind of rehabilitation that a penal system professional (and not I) can provide. My days there are done. I refuse to reward bad behavior and become sick in the process. I have watched the system in Armenia even those corrupt reformers who have tried to change it from within.
8 weeks 2 days ago
I only want to say that I am proud to get my Armenian citizenship. I received my Armenian passport in the past month, June, in Yerevan. I am Armenian, despite being born in Sao Paulo, Brasil.
8 weeks 3 days ago
Haroutiun aghper -
I assume that you are not speaking for all Keghart readers. You then, should not be offended by my comments. I welcome all others, who are offended by my comments, to become "part of the solution".
8 weeks 3 days ago
I don't care for this country nor these people anymore since they don't care for this country themselves nor their people.
One life to live and it isn't worth fighting for the most part a scumbag nation that thinks only about stealing money.
The so called "Amateur Expert" is the one who sits home halfway accross the world and roots for Armenia in everyway and makes a donation of 100 a year to Nagorno Karabagh. The real expert is the one who moves here and finds out the dirty reality.
I'm sorry, but our race is not a good race.
8 weeks 3 days ago
I really don't think that I have more of a right than those who have not done what I have in Armenia to speak out and voice their opinions. As long as factual statements are being made and they are not inaccurate for the sake of causing harm to our nation, then everyone should and in fact does have the right to be heard.
I encourage everyone, even those who have never steppped foot on Armenian soil, but are in tune with what is going on in Armenia, to scream at the top of their lungs if need be, to denounce what is going on in Armenia and demand that it be stopped and those behind it, be it SS, RK and LTP be tossed in prison now.
The reality is that Armenia is not just the property of natives that live there, but it represents the identity of every Armenian in the Diaspora too. For this reason, I think everyone and I mean everyone, especially those who know but keep quite, have an obligation to stand up and be heard. Those who try to prevent this are doing a disservice to themselves and our nation.
If you want to help people like me and respect what we have been doing, then stand behind us and collectively let us be heard.
BTW, reading this editorial for the 3rd time, I feel that it really is not the opinion of the writer(s), but just a document that was written to see what people are thinking. I say this as many things just don't add up. If this is the case, then I really feel that the writer of this editorial needs to apologize to us all, as this topic is so absurd and a waste of our valuable time that we could be using on better things. On the other hand, there really could be people out there who are so misguided (possibly the writer(s) of this editorial) that this is a very serious issue that need to be addressed if we are going to be successful in building our nation on a stable foundation.
I would ask that the author of this editorial chime in and do some explaining and refute what has been said if they don't want to discredit themselves further.
Also, on the topic of refuting and setting the record straight, I invite you to visit The Tuth Must Be Told read and then if you agree, sign the petition that is posted there.
8 weeks 3 days ago
8 weeks 3 days ago
Sireli Leo Manuelian and fellow ungers: many of us (who read Keghart and comment here) are critical of the ROA government and its policies travel to Armenia regularly and work or volunteer there, to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem. We take offense that some may simply assume that anyone who speaks out in the Diaspora must be a fat cat who sits in judgment while not doing anything. Did it not occur to you that we who go to Armenia might see the rampant corruption up close and feel even more obligated to blow the whistle?
8 weeks 4 days ago
Ara Manougian, this editorial does not pertain to you or the likes of you. I read with fascination and much appreciation of your move to Armenia over 10 years ago. I read about the Shahan Natalie Foundation and your bio in the internet. You have earned the right to be “the most outspoken critics of the present and past Armenian governments”. You have lived by the spirit and the challenge of the editorial. After all, you care so much about Armenia that you did pack and moved. This editorial is directed to the easy armchair critics of the ROA from the comfort of their surroundings “8000” miles away.
8 weeks 4 days ago
Without exposing, talking and debating these issues and than rectifying them don't ever expect Armenia to go forward with any genuine positive results for the masses. We have accumulated a debt-mountain and rising. You can bet your last dollar that a big chunk of that debt has been pocketed by ministers, as they don't know any better.
Justice must be seen to prevail in the eyes of the public. We are nowhere near that; sadly we have become a banana republic. I go further and say that these criminal lot will give most of our liberated lands to the Azeris in the very near future, in order to look good in the eyes of US, and EU so that they can close their eyes to the fundamental human rights violations taking place now in Armenia. This will be treachery and they must be put on trial.
8 weeks 4 days ago
If you are going to write an editorial that you want people to take seriously, then be less critical and more correct.
I agree that criticism that does not correspond with reality would be inappropriate, although the criticism that I’ve been hearing from the Diaspora for the most part echoes that of the native population.
Let me first start by stating that I am probably one of the most outspoken critics of the present and past Armenian governments today. I was not like this before moving to Armenia and at that time had such a positive outlook on life and the future that waited Armenia. I did just as you suggest in your editorial an Armenian who moves to Armenia should do. At that time I believed that good or bad, it’s ours and we have to support and protect it.
What I came to realize after living in Armenia and Artsakh for a couple of years is that supporting something that is wrong is not helpful, but hurtful. I didn’t learn this just from my observations, but more so from the countless natives who told me to tell my fellow Diaspora Armenians to stop helping Armenia as it is not helping them but making some very powerful people who are suppressing them more powerful and more dangerous. I even have video of one such message that if you like to hear it for yourself I can send it to you.
Our blindly supporting the criminal Armenian governments (starting with LTP), who I can say without a doubt in my mind are the worst criminals the Armenian nation has had to deal with since independence, was a really bad move on our part. I can say that they are not only thieves, but also cold blooded murderers who will not stop what they have been doing for decades to increase their power and influence until we cut them off and make it clear to them they have been cut off. Anyone who supports them also supports everything they do.
If you want a dose of some well documented Armenian reality, backed up by facts, figures and NOT opinion, you can visit Policy Forum Armenia and download report after report that documents what is really going on in Armenia today and was written by experts.
May I also add that when I moved to Armenia, I was not a human rights activist, nor did that kind of work interest me. I became one after I realized that Armenia had a shortage of such needed interventions. I've been providing this service for the last 10+ years in hopes that I could help to level things out a bit and give the native population hope that all is not lost. And it would be safe to say that my being outspoken and pro-active in setting things straight in the way you suggest we should not, has had a positive effect on peoples lives and influenced change in laws and policy in Armenia.
I have to tell you that after reading this editorial a couple of times and know what I know firsthand about Armenia and the issues that your editorial is trying to address, it sounds to me like this editorial was written by one of those amateur experts you think we need to be saved from.
Ara Manoogian is a human rights activist representing the Shahan Natalie Family Foundation in Artsakh and Armenia, as well as a member of the Washington-based Policy Forum Armenia (PFA)
8 weeks 5 days ago
Much like the rest of the readers, I also have read criticism of the government of Armenia. I have read them almost exclusively at our home, mostly while sitting comfortably on a couch or laying there, I have read them during the four seasons of the year when the air conditioning or the heat in our house have been on to provide me with the comfort that I now have grown to consider my God given right.
Throughout these readings, my car has been in our garage at my disposition to use it at a moment’s notice. Oh, yeah, the refrigerator has been full to capacity and I am always remindful that I should not head there to break the monotony of my reading and be tempted to gulp soda, ice cream or maybe a beer. But I have always wondered what would I have done if I were in Armenia and unable to have ends meet and provide for my family the necessary sustenance and shelter. I bet I would have let the devil take me to bed, let alone Turkey.
I am not against criticizing the Armenian government. However our purse should be in equal measure to our mouths. The late Senator Robert Byrd, the long-standing chairman of the Appropriation Committee said “The basic power, which is probably more fundamental than any other power in the Constitution, is the power of the purse. That power of the purse belongs to the people, and that is where it is vested.” Without vesting our purse in the people of Armenia, our words directed at their elected officials will remain hollow and inconsequential and so will the aspirations of the citizens of Armenia of fair and just governance will remain inconsequential to its elected officials.
8 weeks 5 days ago
Does the author(s) of this editorial have a name? Before I make a comment, I want to know who wrote this editorial and what facts and/or statistics they used to draw their conclusions.
8 weeks 5 days ago
Thank you for raising such an interesting and important topic. For most Armenians in the diaspora, we have lived with a very romantic notion of Armenia. It is the land (in my case) of our grandparents and is the country that our righteous and long suffering people have nurtured for over 3000 years. This perception was developed further by our frustration over the genocide and one of its major effects .... the creation of the diaspora. Armenia in our hearts was the land of the successors to Tigran, Mesrob Massdots and Khrimian Hairig.
There was no room in our dream state for problems like corruption or discord. In our perception, all Armenians got along and our incredible initiative was enough to overcome all problems.
Somewhere along the way, we forgot that 70+ years of Soviet control has altered the work ethic and value system of our people. Survival in a centralized system was critical. To do that , new "skills" were acquired.
When we "bash" Armenia, we forget the big picture that it will take a generation for new methods to be firmly in place. The church, a vital element in Armenian life fro over 1700 years was minimalized by the Soviets. Its resurgence will bring our traditional values back in the mainstream.
Our job in the diaspora is to help; not control. It's a long term project that needs our assistance. We have a chance to see the Armenia in our diaspora dream, but it will require us helping....even when we may not agree.
8 weeks 5 days ago
Stop, I've heard enough! Stop talking!!
Your participation will provide the incentive for one more family to remain in Armenia. Maybe their children will help bring about the change that we all know the country needs. Criticizing, or criticizing those who criticize, does nothing but satisfy the petty psychological needs of armchair thinkers and wannabe diplomats. If you believe that your health doesn't permit, then send your children, or grandchildren. Next to providing them with life, it will be one of their greatest experiences you can give to them.
8 weeks 5 days ago
The Eurasia Foundation is searching for someone who will play saboteur (oops, I meant facilitator) in the mockery they call Turkish-Armenian "reconciliation." It's no secret that projects such as what Eurasia has in mind is part of a grand plan that will be in full swing by the time the 100th anniversary of the Armenian Genocide rolls around.
Turkish and Armenian artists, musicians, photographers, architects, actors and others (have already been) and will continue to be invited to participate in very high-profile events that prey on their egos and vanities : to showcase their talents with the world while joining hands with each other to "forgive and forget," celebrate "friendship," and take part in "Joint" events, panels, concerts, lectures, exhibits and the like -- in Turkey, Armenia and the Diaspora.
From 2001-2004, David Phillips, a senior advisor with the US State Dept. tried to sell us TARC (he was its chairman). He failed to persuade the Armenian community to jump on his bandwagon. But that hasn't stopped him or the US State Dept. This past February, Phillips went to Armenia to celebrate the release of the Armenian-language version of his book, "Unsilencing the Past: Track II Diplomacy and Turkish-Armenian Reconciliation." (It was first published in English in 2005 by Berghahn Books.)
If TARC is dead, then why is Phillips peddling his book and ideas to various organizations and individuals in Armenia in 2010? So long as our Armenian community organizations and political parties do business with the corrupt Sargsyan regime, with the scheming US Embassy in Armenia, and go on such junkets to Turkey, they have blood on their hands.
TARC is reborn and we are in for no garden party, much less some progressive movement ushering in democracy.
8 weeks 5 days ago
We all know that the Serge Sargssian regime is corrupt. But considering the dangers Armenia is facing, is it constructive to publicly tear apart Sargssian and his gang? As you probably know, the previous administrations were corrupt, too. They were criticized, just as Sargssian is being criticized now. Did the criticism achieve anything? I doubt it. Not criticizing SS and his gang at this time doesn't necessarily mean we are being complacent.
8 weeks 5 days ago
Turkey is more fake than Azerbaijan.
We Armenians, Greeks, Kurds and Syrians should call Turkey occupied rerritories.
8 weeks 5 days ago
I totall agree with you Mihran. If the people will consider the president as the supreme commander and put all their trust in him and he is corrupt, then who should change this 'dictatorship' if not the people?!
We should be able to use the power of revolution to correct a situation that most of the population is against it. That will be total democracy that doesn't even exist in USA.
Also what you are describing Mihran is the exact situation of USA - "close my eyes to all these sins and say everything is ok just because they are the government of the day". That's how they treat the Commander-in-Chief, no matter whose puppet he is. They forget how he became a president on false promises and 'paid' campagns.
Actually all governments of the world "are a bunch of corrupt crooks hiding behind patriotic slogans", so why do you think Armenia should be different?
8 weeks 5 days ago
There is a saying attributed to Stephen Decatur: "My country: right or wrong," which is meant to denote loyalty to the last.
This saying was later modified by Carl Schurtz into: "My country: right or wrong. If right, to be kept right. If wrong, to be set right."
In a democratic country, that is called "healthy dissent." In despotic regimes, it is called "treason."
8 weeks 5 days ago
8 weeks 6 days ago
2- Without exception every Armenian has the right to express his or her opinion
3- Remember in Avarair the "Zealous" in Sardarabad the "Khents" and in Artsakh the "Amateur Peasants" said the last word.
4- Sir, If our President Mr. Sargsyan and his administration stop corruption and oligarchy, and start selflessly and courageously to defend Armenia and Artsakh people's full rights, then be assured that all groups of Armenian people will support and admire him.
Armenians are very grateful people.
Thank you,
Dr. Babajanian, USA
8 weeks 6 days ago
I totally agree with you. The least these countries can do is to protect and defend people with similar faith who have suffered the genocide from people with other religions.
8 weeks 6 days ago
Right on the money, Annie.
I hadn't thought about it, but 'reconciliation' is a misleading lie.
To be reconciled one has to have been a friend.
Turkey has never been our friend--since the Seljuk and Ottoman marauders ravaged Armenia and held us as ra'ya (sheep) all those centuries (see 'Cringing Armenians in a recent Keghart.com). In 1915 they slaughtered the ra'ya.
What reconciliation?
8 weeks 6 days ago
As far as helping Armenia I do by supporting poor people. That is the only way it gets in the hands of the needy. This lot can't be trusted; it will sell everything and anything in order to stay in power.
8 weeks 6 days ago
Yes, a lot of people, even today's top Armenian political party leaders will surely remember him, this unknown Hero and Champion of the Armenians!
Hamo Moskofian
8 weeks 6 days ago
Look, I saw the job posting by Eurasia Partnership Foundation (EPF) on this page for someone to do Turkish Armenian dialogue and reconciliation. I did not know that we and Turks were once good friends and are now should be reconciled. Who chose the word reconciliation because I never heard it before Western people started babbling and writing that word all over the place. I do not want to be reconciled with Turks. They are not my friends and they are not my ex-husband so why I need to be reconciled to them? Reconciliation is the stupidest word I ever heard and most Armenians are fooled by it but I am not.
This EPF and others want a person to bring Turks and Armenians together and it has to do with money not peace. Armenia is in the way because western oil and gas companies want to dig pipelines through our Armenia and also through Armenian land in Turkey because they are not satisfied with Georgia and also they want to drag Armenia away from Russia and now I ask when Armenians will wake up and see that they are being used by people who do not care about Armenian rights but just want money and for Armenians to bow down to Turkey and give up any claims forever. I do see concerts given by Armenian musicians in Turkey and I think they and artists who do that are naive. Reconcilation is stupid word and please don't use it ever again. It makes me sick to my stomach.
8 weeks 6 days ago
8 weeks 6 days ago
I agree with some parts of all of the comments you are making but it is essential for those of us of the Diaspora to offer criticisms even though it may be distressing to the powers to be. It is essential that the leadership shake off many of the inequities and defects of the communist system as it moves toward capitalism but there must be caution that we not duplicate or emulate the evils of capitalism as we are seeing it in the U.S. right now.. There is a middle road which is best described as Democratic Capitalism,as espoused by Ray Carey, in which the worker gets a significant piece of the apple as they toil in the system. Carey puts it well when he states that Karl Marx and John Stuart Mill had it right in their diagnosis of the wrongs of the society in the 19th century but Karl Marx's solution was egregiously wrong whereas John Stuart had it right with his gradualism.
8 weeks 6 days ago
Editor's Note:
This appears to be an advertisement and Keghart.com's policy is not to post material that has purily commercial intent. However, in this particular case Badrig has aptly chosen a title which expresses the intent of the material that follows and has relevance with the subject under discussion.
“… they will rebel only when they become conscious." George Orwell, "1984."
Eurasia Partnership Foundation (EPF), a recognized leader in the field of program implementation and grants management in the South Caucasus, is looking for an international facilitator with vast experience in dialogue projects to work in the upcoming Armenian-Turkish large-scale dialogue project, pending funding. The facilitator will commit a substantial part of his or her time over the next two years (from 25% to 100%) to traveling between Armenia and Turkey, working with Armenian and Turkish partners, moving forward future joint projects, as well as facilitating joint Armenian-Turkish events, so that they are goal-oriented, effective, and fruitful.
The recruitment is done on behalf of a consortium comprising Eurasia Partnership Foundation (EPF), International Center for Human Development (ICHD), Yerevan Press Club (YPC), and Union of Manufacturers and Businessmen of Armenia (UMBA). These four organizations have recently joined their forces to pursue coordinated action and project implementation in the context of Armenian-Turkish relations.
APPLICATION PROCEDURES: To apply, please send cover letter and resume with “International Facilitator – Armenia” in the subject line.
OPENING DATE: June 15, 2010
APPLICATION DEADLINE: July 5, 2010
8 weeks 6 days ago
Azerbaijan is a made-up, phony country, and the book proves it. I have read it. Azerbaijan was always merely the region in Iran to the south of present day Azerbaijan. It was a geographical designation. The name was given to the present "Azerbaijan" for political reasons. What is an "Azeri"? Ask yourself that. There is no such thing. Armenia and Artsakh have to announce over and over and over again that Azerbaijan is simply a made-up country with no legitimacy. If they do this enough, and refer to the facts in Galichian's book, the media and governments will come to say the same thing - that the so-called historical rights of Azerbaijan are a fiction, a lie. People will start to look upon Azerbaijan as illegitimate and with minimal or even no rights. This may even lead to the break up of "Azerbaijan." Look, Turkey does the same thing with Armenia. Turkey claims there was never an Armenia on what is now "Turkish" territory. It claims that hardly any Armenians ever lived there. That is also what Azerbaijan claims about Karabagh. They lie, while we Armenians act like sheep. We Armenian Americans lack the ability to go for the jugular. We are too nice. Nice guys finish last. And Armenia and Karabagh just plain stink at public relations and "propaganda." Oh, do they stink. Azerbaijan needs to be totally delegitimized in the eyes of the world. Its history must be shown to be phony. It must be thought of as fictitous. Will the Armenian American community, ANCA, and AAA please pick up Galichian's book and read the damn thing and act on it? Will the dumbells in the Armenian government consult Galichian on the best way to conduct a campaign to totally and forever delegitimize Azerbaijan?
9 weeks 23 min ago
Thanks for your article. Good people are worth remembering. Armenians are always grateful for such people who would understand and value our positions among them.
I do not remember if I have heard the name of the champion you mention here but probably many Beiruti people recognize him and thank him.
Thanks Hamo. I will share this article on my wall.
9 weeks 2 hours ago
They are a bunch of corrupt crooks hiding behind patriotic slogans.
9 weeks 2 hours ago
We do not need to wait until and when Turkey recognises the Genocide. We can start now to claim what belonged to us in courts similar to that Greek Istanbul family which was able through the EU supreme court to get back their Istanbul confiscated/stolen properties. Imagine that Turkey is sued with hundreds of thousands court cases...
9 weeks 2 hours ago
It has to be clear to the world that these countries should be classified as NON RELIGIOUS countries.
They preach that they are christians But they DO NOT LIVE A CHRISTIAN LIFE.
9 weeks 4 hours ago
It's good to read and consider Razmik's thoughts on this topic. I certainly found arguments (some difficult) that I (and others) need to mull over.
The one point that I was looking for is what the future is for diasporan work in the various countries they are living in. Here in the UK, we are lobbying as much as we can to keep the topic in front of politicians, academics and NGOs (including the wide dissemination of Geoffrey Robertson QC's independent legal opinion). Does this not have a value in our armoury that needs to be commented on?
My own view is that we the Armenians now have less than five years left to achieve genocide recognition and the consequnces that follow. If Turkey resists until the 100th anniversary of 1915, what could possibly happen to take this forward after that? The final denial will have been achieved at this milestone (or deadline in my view).
So all forms of advancing our case have to be adopted and with more energy as time passes.
9 weeks 8 hours ago
Of course, criticism only for the sake of criticism is not a good approach especially in Diaspora - homeland relations; on the other hand, Diaspora should point to some shortcomings in Armenia regarding the activities of government. There should be a clear line between current government and Armenia as a homeland. Diaspora can and should sometimes criticize the Armenian government which does not mean to criticize the Armenian statehood. If Diaspora will merge these two things and see no difference between current Armenian government and Armenia as a homeland or statehood, I don't think it's a right option.
9 weeks 1 day ago
Although I admired your editorial (as I admire nearly all of them) for its balanced reasoning, its positive action-mindedness, its opposition to “let’s bash Armenia” and its lighting a candle tendency; and though I am one of those who take personal affront from the bashings, yet there are quite a few points where I have to disagree, namely:
Blockades by Turkey and Azerbaijan are, in fact, one of the smallest woes of Armenia, blown out of proportion by successive governments to cover their shortcomings.
To criticize Serzh Sargsyan and Co. is not pointless. Even if they choose to ignore the views of Armenians (of Diaspora, as well of Armenia), they at least should be aware of it. To suffice it to a single (mildly) unfavorable adjective and then giving in, is actually joining the conspiracy of silence -- and advertising for it. After all, what are we saving our precious golden breath for?
If as you say, people in Armenia are bright, educated, sophisticated, and hard-working citizens who are immensely patriotic, then how do you expect them to confuse a criticism of the government with bashing the nation or the state as a whole, and how can we also hurt the morale of the citizens of Armenia and Artsakh when we would be saying what many (if not most) of them are saying.
You offer a statistics on corruption as a condolence, saying we are worse off than only most of the world!
It is sad to see Keghart stating that criticism is a luxury reserved for certain countries. That is swallowing the time-tested bait used by all despots (and mini-despots). In fact we “not well offs” need a 24/7/53.
Yes, these are hard times and the Diaspora should keep on helping the motherland, morally as well as economically (including financially), but it should not be done through people who will pocket all privileges for themselves.
By the way, I did move to Armenia. I am out of the country on business. I hope I will have a reentry permit.
Finally, I wish the epilogue were somewhat more tolerant towards noise makers – it would be more Keghart style.
9 weeks 1 day ago
In Lebanon or any other country, the schools have a curriculum that all follow and in all schools the local language is obligatory. So all students have to learn the country's language, history, literature and more. Even if they are private community schools, like Armenian or French.
The names you mentioned were Universities and not Schools. I agree that Armenia should not put a restriction on Universities, however schools, even foreign language ones should have Armenian as their 1st language.
In USA and Canada (supposed to be bi-lingual) schools only stress on a single language - English. Armenia should not follow the same path, we need to be like Lebanon, where people learn multiple languages and have high-level of general knowledge at an early age. So we need to introduce foreign language schools, but make Armenian mandatory in all schools as a 1st language.
9 weeks 1 day ago
9 weeks 3 days ago
I know someone who is not in good health and admires Komitas. I am wondering if you know anything about Komitas' final words before he died. Did he ever mention anything regarding "head to toe" or "toe to head" as if in some pain or as a reference to something else? This individual who admires him is making similar references and also keeps mentioning Komitas' name. I look forward to your response.
9 weeks 5 days ago
The singer in the embedded video is ZOHRAB YARALIAN and he is a Kessabtsi! I apologize to Zohrab and the readers for my error. I thank Esther Tognozzi for bringing my error to my attention.
9 weeks 5 days ago
I am not sure what is the state of education in Lebanon nowadays. I left Lebanon in 1976. Up to that time, if a Lebanese wanted to study a profession such as medicine, pharmacy, dentistry, engineering then he or she had to attend one of the foreign institutions of higher learning, either the American University of Beirut in English or St. Joseph University in French. In order to be able to study int hese universities, the student naturally had to have studied English or French. Historically up to that point Lebanon was famed for its foreign schools and institutions of higher learning. However, during those decades, I cannot say that the Lebanese Arabic culture was in its dark ages or the survival of the Arabic language in Lebanon was at stake.
I am inclined not to believe that the present law permitting foreign language schools in Armenia signifies the doom of our language. I am also not sure if these foreign schools will not offer Armenian as a language in their schools if there is demand for it. Parents will not send their children to foreign schools just for having sent them to foreign schools; nor will parents not send their children to Armenian schools knowing that the quality of education in the Armenian language schools surpasses the other schools. It will boil down to the quality of the education a school provides; it's as simple as that, and that's the way it should be.
9 weeks 6 days ago
The writer, who for many years was a columnist for the Toronto STAR, is an Islamist. He judges international conflicts, issues through Islamic lens. Always the key question for him is: ''Is this good for Islam?" Even though he acknowledges the Genocide of Armenians, I am certain that if Azeris attack Armenia/Arstakh, he would justify Sultan Aliyev's aggression.
10 weeks 11 hours ago
10 weeks 11 hours ago
10 weeks 11 hours ago
http://asbarez.com/82545/armenian-parliament-passes-foreign-language-sch...
10 weeks 12 hours ago
Mouradian and Sanamyan stepped into Turkey and met genocide-denier President Gul just a day after another genocide-denier PM Erdogan threatened to deport 100,000 fellow Armenians.
Why haven’t they fully explained themselves yet?
Meanwhile, Mouradian and Sanamyan posted dispatches of their trip, most of which displayed striking similarities to how the ARF interacted with the Ittihadist (Young) Turks (aka Committee of Union and Progress) and Mouradian’s and Sanamyan’s pandering to several denialist figures and hosts and even anti-restorative justice rights advocates.
Have they lost their moral compass?
One does not attain restorative justice by participating in decades of diluted, closed-door events that resemble lectures and protests for improving Turkish democracy and human rights in general and in an open-ended format where nothing is binding at the conclusion of the endeavor. Did the Jewish people attain their restorative justice this way?
One does not attain restorative justice by gratifying a small number of “Armenian-friendly” Turkish scholars, like anti-reparations Taner Akcam and Fatma Gocek and other so-called progressive, flip-flop Turks such as Amberin Zaman, whose numbers across the board have not increased in the past decade and who lecture mostly to Armenians to weaken them and their legitimate cause.
And, one does not attain restorative justice by engaging in “reconciliation” events that foreign governments are sponsoring and/or exploiting to push the detrimental protocols process and “normalization” drive forward. Former Amb. Evans recently spoke in favor of these events at a commemoration program in Michigan, and Amb. Yovanovitch refers to these “unprecedented” events frequently in speeches across Armenia.
If the ADL-Ramgavar or any other Armenian party engaged in any such TARC-like activity, the ARF would have harshly criticized that party day in and day out and rightfully so. But, I guess it is okay that they themselves are steering the “reconciliation” wheel for God knows what benefit besides personal and partisan gain.
Yes, Turkey has “changed.” It has changed for the worst. And, it is changing some of our fellow Armenians who clearly do not think things through, are lackeys of corrupt bureaus and organizations thousands of kilometers away and/or see Hye Tad "promotion" as an opportunity for
career advancement and notoriety.
How much longer is this farce going to continue?
10 weeks 1 day ago
However, I could not relate well to the two characters of the story, Sahag and Kaloust. I am sure that they are real characters. However, I think they were not only reminiscing of the bygone days, but they also were analyzing as adults the events that led to the 1958. Both were 9 or 10 years old in mid 1950’s and are my age. I wondered if boys at that age could have possibly been acutely aware of the rivalries of the super powers of the day to reminisce of their impact on their tranquil personal lives in Nor Hadjin or Karantina. In any event, your story took me back to that fateful year, 1958, when the prevailing talks we heard from our parents and relatives were those killings. I wish both of these articles are also presented to the readers in English.
10 weeks 1 day ago
This is something which is bound to be the subject of growing attention by all parties as the time passes and as the geopolitics of the region changes. The best course, of course, is dialogue and peaceful means of dispute settlement. It is a welcome development that our Kurdish friends have begun to openly acknowledge their share in the extermination of Armenian population from their homeland. Perhaps realisation of that fact can serve as a starting point to acknowledge also their share of responsibility for compensation or restitution when it comes to Armenian lands inhabitted by Kurds.
10 weeks 1 day ago
The article is full of unwarranted praise for a demagogue who uses double standards abundantly. I wonder if the writer is aware of the Turkish blockade of Armenia for already 17 years when he quotes Erdogan's reference to the blockade of Gaza.
He claims that Erdogan has somehow indirectly acknowledged that the past Fascist Turkey "did ethnically cleanse its minorities", as if he has repented from their practice. Was it not the same Erdogan who recently threatened to expel Armenian immigrants from Turkey, thus continuing that country's genocidal practices ever since 1915 ?
The writer says a tour through the region has opened his eyes. It seems he should open his eyes wider to see some more unsettling realities in the region.
10 weeks 1 day ago
Wow....here is an Azeri living in Great Britain and willing to go to war ...Yes of course...it seems that he is a great armchair warrior sitting in England. What I do not understand is why they do not read history other than their own fabrications. Is this inherent to Azeris and Turks alike? Turks also read nothing but their own history books manufactured by their leaders.
Javidan efendi..were you in Sumgait ? What happened there? Besides, let me remind you that it was not Armenians who ran away during the war but Azeris. Have you not been told that Azeris ran away when few donkeys loaded with strong projectors were unleashed toward your positions and you thought they were tanks and all of you quit your positions.
How about when an Armenian helicopter poured a white powder over your positions and your soldiers ran away because it was "poisonous gas"...well...it was not gas but bleached flour...you know...they make delicious Armenian bread with them.
There is a Turkish saying , I hope it is close enough to Azeri language
"bos lafla peynir gemisi yurumez"
10 weeks 1 day ago
Turkey will never relinquish Western Armenia, unless another great war happens and world falls into turmaoil.....otherwise forget moving there.
I am speaking as an ex-Turkish citizen. Unless you have lived in Turkey and have been subject to their social, educational thinking you will never learn the deep rooted animosity toward anything that is not Turkish. Who the heck wants to live under their "modernized" rule...certainly not this Armenian....
The rest can only dream...living in Western Armenia like our forefathers is just like the Turkish poet saying " Kubbede kalan hos bir seda imis" meaning - What is left in the dome is a pleasant echo...Those days are gone and we live only with echos of the past....but this does not mean that we should stop pursuing our goal but we should be realistic......Who knows...maybe ...sometime in the future?
10 weeks 2 days ago
Thank you very much. The idea is awesome. Congrats.
10 weeks 2 days ago
Your comments are on point.
We know well how reformers, protesters and dissenters are treated in Armenia -- by the "establishment" -- that is, the government, riot police, oligarchs with long tentacles, and even Diasporans employed by establishment personnel.
I'd like to hear more about dissenters in the Diaspora -- those who belong to traditional political parties, charitable organizations and even churches -- and disagree with the political stands these groups have taken re: the Armenian condition.
What percentage of the dissenters disagree with the Protocols or Turkish-Armenian Reconciliation, but go along with policies set by their "leaders" to be 'good soldiers,' and even publicly defend positions they don't agree with?
How many dissenters are thrown out of their organizations for speaking out against dubious leaders, platforms and policies?
By the same token, how many followers in these groups try to discredit or slander (in public forums, in the press) outside observers who might question what is going on?
Thanks for your insights.
10 weeks 2 days ago
10 weeks 2 days ago
Dear Mark - our local home-town boy!
Yes, I'm from Fresno too. My mother and grandparents barely made it out alive from their home of Aintab, Turkey . I appreciate your illuminating us on the politics at hand. Sometimes we lay people are pretty ignorant of these things and wonder what the heck is going on?!
Keep up the good work!
10 weeks 2 days ago
Without analyzing the legal aspects and interpretations of these terms there is one fact that Azeris do not dwell upon. It was only 90 years ago that Karabagh was GIVEN to them by the great Georgian murderer. It is not Azeri territory for them to claim anyway... So all those pundits, who talk about territorial integrity, should consult history...
10 weeks 3 days ago
We often think of the 1895 to 1920 time frame when it comes to the Ottoman Empire. These were the worst of times. That does not mean Armenians had it easy up until then. We focus so much on the Genocide we forget how oppresive life was during the entire Ottoman reign.
Sure, we had Armenians that were useful to the Sultans. These "house slaves" had some skill that was valued by the ruling class. But, for the majority of the people, I imagine life was pretty difficult. It is good for us all to read these third party perspectives.
I have a four CD set of Minority Composers of Ottoman Music that includes Armenians, Greeks, Jews, and Gypsies. In the liner notes, the Ottoman Empire was referred to as "the empire of tolerance." I read that, sat back and simply said "OK..." I showed this to a prominent Armenian Historian, the author of several books, he looked and was actually stunned for a few moments before simply chuckling.
We need such historical testimonies to combat the constant spin.
10 weeks 3 days ago
Thank you for explaining, in very clear English, the politics behind the scenes, and especially pointing to our Armenian dilemma: "And what about the Armenians and their lobby? Aren’t they guilty of their own cynicism for watching the flotilla feud and now thinking that the winds of geopolitics have finally blown their way?"
Unfortunately we don't have any real policy. We are simply driven by anger and emotion.
10 weeks 3 days ago
Thank you, Mark Arax!
10 weeks 3 days ago
Buenos Aires
10 weeks 3 days ago
A timely article to say "enough is enough" to all those who do not have the slightest clue about the importance of language -the mother tongue in your own country.. How far we can go with our "odaramolootyoon"! The ignorance of common people can - may be - forgiven but people who are "trusted" to be in charge of important positions for the people, for the country, for the safety of our values. WHO ARE THEY? Yes, it's time to say : OUT!! Enough is enough!!
Bravo Mr. Kojayan
Koko78Tal@rcn.com
10 weeks 3 days ago
Armenians with hardheaded thoughts and suspicions toward Turkey are not welcome on panels. They do not get to have any say. They need to express their opinions but are not invited.
10 weeks 4 days ago
Today, many Diasporans no longer speak Armenian, having assimilated into their mainstream societies. Those who still speak it and/or taught their offspring to speak it made a concerted effort to do so. It did not simply happen by chance. It is no secret that the Western Armenian runs the risk of extinction.
It is with great sadness in America that I've observed newer arrivals from Armenia speak to their offspring exclusively in English. Any host culture's language will be omnipresent in that society and can easily be learned and spoken. Can the same be said of a mother tongue from a foreign land that is shrinking in size by the decade? With the introduction of foreign language schools in Armenia, will the disappearance of Eastern Armenian and the cultural values that accompany a language follow suit? It is ALSO no secret that Western based initiatives operating in/servicing Armenia teach Armenian youth to abandon their so-called backwater culture to follow a Western model that is presented as more sophisticated.
How many more native Armenian graduate students do I have to encounter who, through entrepreneurial programs abroad (such as Soros), returned to Armenia to open restaurant-casinos with back rooms reserved for prostitution and who proudly crow that they've become success stories by embracing Western values? If the powers that be wish to continue weakening and threatening the very existence of Armenia, they could not have found a better way to do it than to introduce foreign language schools.
10 weeks 4 days ago
The map of Kurdistan shown in here, presumably represents the goal and aspirations of PUK. It seems to be too bold and Utopian a dream. First of all, it disregards the historical claim of lands belonging to the Armenians. Secondly, it assumes the generous leniency of three (even four) neighboring countries: Turkey; Iran; Iraq; and to a certain extent, Syria. Nakhichevan seems to be allocated to Armenia, but Karabagh is not shown as an independent state (or part of Armenia).
If Turkey is ever to relinquish its hold on eastern Anatolia, I wonder if it will prefer part of these lands to be ceded to Armenia, rather than made part of a huge Kurdistan... Even Iran might prefer Armenian ownership of parts of these lands, rather than having them relinquished to Kurdistan.
In the absence of clear cut and legally teenable agreements between the Kurds and the Armenians, wishful thinking won't get us anything, except more disappointments and trouble. It is not enough to adopt the attitude of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"... There is need for diplomacy and negotiations with the Turks (and even Iranians) as much as with the Kurds.
From my perspective, even in 1915 and before, the Kurds were not just bidding the goals of the Turks, but were also getting rid of Armenians from lands of mutual ownership. Presently, the Kurds might bring out the issue of the Armenian Genocide just to highlight the barbarity of the Turks, and thus gain international sympathy to their present cause and aspirations.
With caution and concern,
Hovannes.
10 weeks 4 days ago
I confirm that it is not easy today to live in double identity in Turkey where massacres can occur anytime...
Regarding Aliye Alt's book there is no English version, but some friends will help to have it in future.
Hamo Moskofian, Beirut
10 weeks 4 days ago
I doubt that Mr. Mikirditsian had the guts to tell his kurdish "friends" that we, Armenians have suffered from kurdish atrocities and vandalism as much as from turkish crimes. If Mr. Mikirditsian is expecting recognition of our genocide from the perpetrator, Turks, we, Armenians all over the world are expecting the same kind of confession and acknowledgment from the kurds for their crimes against us.
While it seems that Mr. Manoyan is flattered by his delegation's reception, awkwardly his main and only thought is business opportunities in Erbil.
This is to remind Mr. Mikirditsian and co. that they and their party do not represent the opinion of Armenians worldwide.
Aram
10 weeks 5 days ago
I see that President Obama wants everyone to learn another language, however which one should it be?
The British learn French, the Australians study Japanese, and the Americans prefer Spanish. Yet this leaves Russian, Mandarin Chinese and Arabic, out of the equation.
It is time to move forward and discuss the subject of a common international language, taught worldwide, in all schools and in all nations. As a native English speaker, my vote is for Esperanto.
Click here for more information from Google.
Click here for a glimpse of Esperanto